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*Dungeons & Dragons
Low CRs and "Boring" Monsters: Ogre
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<blockquote data-quote="Shadowdweller00" data-source="post: 6985520" data-attributes="member: 6778479"><p>Fiddly and/or unique abilities are almost the opposite of what I'm talking about, let alone coming up with them on the fly. The system should be able to able to model a reasonable range of combat and noncombat tactics such as "I try to grab the orc's spear out of his hands." Or "I try to make the hobgoblin angry at me by insulting his paternity." The system should offer viable alternatives to "hit things" that are open to everything. If the GM feels these tactics aren't viable, they should houserule ways to make them viable. And then apply them consistently to both monsters AND player characters. </p><p></p><p>4e went the completely wrong direction by squelching any non-hit things action and then designing a horde of fiddly, inconsistent, unique abilities for every monster based on breed or military rank. Many of which accomplished similar things in highly inconsistent ways. Action types that should have been open to anyone were monopolized by specific race or class options for no justification whatsoever beyond "balance". 5e hasn't done a fantastic job in that department by comparison, but there ARE at least base grapple, shove, aid maneuvers as well as more expansive (if less defined) skills.</p><p></p><p>Wrong. First of all, these aren't connected concepts. Skills are hard-coded monster abilities that provide tangible benefits, if ill-defined ones. (And the ogre doesn't get any beyond base stats btw). RP is inappropriate for gauging class or spell balance since that's character dependent, but it is entirely appropriate for monster balance since it determines monster behavior. For example: If you take a base ogre as GM and give it a dozen contingency plans or play it as deftly manipulating the labyrinthine schemes of Drow nobility (beyond brute intimidation) then I'm sorry but yes, you're doing something wrong. 4e absolutely could have fixed their base system by offering reasonable non-hit things options, 4e GMs could have houseruled their way out of the problem. But the base system made it much more difficult to do so.</p><p></p><p>As a GM, a document that provides ideas for RP, social perspectives, religion, hierarchy, and other things to inspire the imagination is far more valuable than wasting space on separate stat blocks for ogre bludgeoneers, thugs, skirmishers, warhulks, and other pigeonholed combatants with slightly different circumstantial boni.</p><p>All those NPC stat blocks at the end of the MM and VGtM are designed to be adjusted to an assortment of monstrous races. Need an ogre shaman? Fit the ogre stat and special ability adjustments to the Druid or Acolyte NPC block. Want to create a swashbuckling gelatinous cube for some tortured in-game reason? Gelatinous cube stats and abilities mixed with Swashbuckler (VGtM). It's a pain to recalculate CR in 5e, but the tools are there.</p><p></p><p>That said, having a book or web-enhancement of monster-specific customization options as well as appropriate CR-adjustment wouldn't be a terrible idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shadowdweller00, post: 6985520, member: 6778479"] Fiddly and/or unique abilities are almost the opposite of what I'm talking about, let alone coming up with them on the fly. The system should be able to able to model a reasonable range of combat and noncombat tactics such as "I try to grab the orc's spear out of his hands." Or "I try to make the hobgoblin angry at me by insulting his paternity." The system should offer viable alternatives to "hit things" that are open to everything. If the GM feels these tactics aren't viable, they should houserule ways to make them viable. And then apply them consistently to both monsters AND player characters. 4e went the completely wrong direction by squelching any non-hit things action and then designing a horde of fiddly, inconsistent, unique abilities for every monster based on breed or military rank. Many of which accomplished similar things in highly inconsistent ways. Action types that should have been open to anyone were monopolized by specific race or class options for no justification whatsoever beyond "balance". 5e hasn't done a fantastic job in that department by comparison, but there ARE at least base grapple, shove, aid maneuvers as well as more expansive (if less defined) skills. Wrong. First of all, these aren't connected concepts. Skills are hard-coded monster abilities that provide tangible benefits, if ill-defined ones. (And the ogre doesn't get any beyond base stats btw). RP is inappropriate for gauging class or spell balance since that's character dependent, but it is entirely appropriate for monster balance since it determines monster behavior. For example: If you take a base ogre as GM and give it a dozen contingency plans or play it as deftly manipulating the labyrinthine schemes of Drow nobility (beyond brute intimidation) then I'm sorry but yes, you're doing something wrong. 4e absolutely could have fixed their base system by offering reasonable non-hit things options, 4e GMs could have houseruled their way out of the problem. But the base system made it much more difficult to do so. As a GM, a document that provides ideas for RP, social perspectives, religion, hierarchy, and other things to inspire the imagination is far more valuable than wasting space on separate stat blocks for ogre bludgeoneers, thugs, skirmishers, warhulks, and other pigeonholed combatants with slightly different circumstantial boni. All those NPC stat blocks at the end of the MM and VGtM are designed to be adjusted to an assortment of monstrous races. Need an ogre shaman? Fit the ogre stat and special ability adjustments to the Druid or Acolyte NPC block. Want to create a swashbuckling gelatinous cube for some tortured in-game reason? Gelatinous cube stats and abilities mixed with Swashbuckler (VGtM). It's a pain to recalculate CR in 5e, but the tools are there. That said, having a book or web-enhancement of monster-specific customization options as well as appropriate CR-adjustment wouldn't be a terrible idea. [/QUOTE]
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