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Low CRs and "Boring" Monsters: Ogre
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6986604" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Exactly. This is the gist of the problem with relatively granular systems (action economy and layers of codified numbers that must be integrated for any attempt at balance) that lack robust stunting guidelines.</p><p></p><p>Consider the below:</p><p></p><p>A) <em><strong>Cortex+ Fantasy Heroic</strong></em>? This scenario is simple and engaging.</p><p></p><p>1) Scene Asset = Grove of Oak Trees (d8) (maybe for hiding, climbing to get away from threats, or....)</p><p></p><p>2) GM's action for the Ogre is to slam into the tree and try to knock it over onto the PCs.</p><p></p><p>2a) GM thinks "this is a pretty silly gamble but awesome...even a massive ogre may not be able to uproot an mighty oak" and decides to use Area Attack SFX (for each additional target add d6 and keep additional effect die) + its "Dumb as a Box of Rocks" Distinction to add a 1d4 to its pool. This increases the chance of failure on the action, but also gives the GM a d6 to add to his/her Doom Pool.</p><p>2b) Add Strength d10 gives it a chance of knocking over a d8 tree.</p><p></p><p>Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. However, now I've got a new d6 in the Doom Pool to add a Venemous Bee Swarm Threat to the mix as the tree housed a bee hive that the Ogre had become immune to over the years. Or maybe I stepped up an existing Doom Die to d8 rather than adding a d6, so now I have Infernal Bee Swarm as a new Threat!</p><p></p><p>B) <em><strong>Dungeon World</strong></em>? Simple. Just follow the fiction. Are they in a grove of oak trees? Do I think and ogre can knock one over? Ok. I make my move use the the existing Ogre damage for the tree. One the PCs outright fails their Defy Danger efforts with a 6- (and Marks XP). I'm going to make a different move instead of Dealing Damage to one of the PCs. I'm going to escalate things and Use a monster, Danger, or Location Move. Boom. (Infernal) Venemous Bee Swarm.</p><p></p><p>If they get a 7-9, they escape damage, but perhaps one of their legs are pinned under a branch and an upended and moderately anthologized hive is among the canopy.</p><p></p><p>All sorts of opportunity to engage the fiction via the mechanics (and vice versa).</p><p></p><p>C) <em><strong>4e</strong></em>? Same situation as Dungeon World. Just follow the fiction. Are they in a grove of oak trees? Do I think and ogre can knock one over? Ok. I make my move; Standard Action Terrain Stunt for the Ogre. This would be a Limited Use ability so use that level's Limited Use damage budget for any damage and rider (immobilized, forced movement, prone, or a new Poison Zone of Bees perhaps). Ogre rolls Athletics vs Hard DC, Level + 3 vs Reflex vs PCs, damage/rider effect.</p><p></p><p>All 3 integrated within the scope of the game's basic engine, thus ensuring The Big Three:</p><p></p><p>* balanced/predictable effects (a GM's concern when comparing stunts against standard attack routines) </p><p>* dynamic, challenging combat with fun/interesting decision-points for GMs and players </p><p>* coherent genre fiction.</p><p></p><p>[HR][/HR]</p><p></p><p>Of note, I don't think 5e's combat engine is inherently incapable of functionally engendering this kind of stuff as SOP (and ensuring The Big Three). But (a) more robust stunting guidelines for PCs and NPCs alike and/or (b) a large suite of balanced/system integrated dynamic monster abilities to pick and choose from would definitely help!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6986604, member: 6696971"] Exactly. This is the gist of the problem with relatively granular systems (action economy and layers of codified numbers that must be integrated for any attempt at balance) that lack robust stunting guidelines. Consider the below: A) [I][B]Cortex+ Fantasy Heroic[/B][/I]? This scenario is simple and engaging. 1) Scene Asset = Grove of Oak Trees (d8) (maybe for hiding, climbing to get away from threats, or....) 2) GM's action for the Ogre is to slam into the tree and try to knock it over onto the PCs. 2a) GM thinks "this is a pretty silly gamble but awesome...even a massive ogre may not be able to uproot an mighty oak" and decides to use Area Attack SFX (for each additional target add d6 and keep additional effect die) + its "Dumb as a Box of Rocks" Distinction to add a 1d4 to its pool. This increases the chance of failure on the action, but also gives the GM a d6 to add to his/her Doom Pool. 2b) Add Strength d10 gives it a chance of knocking over a d8 tree. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. However, now I've got a new d6 in the Doom Pool to add a Venemous Bee Swarm Threat to the mix as the tree housed a bee hive that the Ogre had become immune to over the years. Or maybe I stepped up an existing Doom Die to d8 rather than adding a d6, so now I have Infernal Bee Swarm as a new Threat! B) [I][B]Dungeon World[/B][/I]? Simple. Just follow the fiction. Are they in a grove of oak trees? Do I think and ogre can knock one over? Ok. I make my move use the the existing Ogre damage for the tree. One the PCs outright fails their Defy Danger efforts with a 6- (and Marks XP). I'm going to make a different move instead of Dealing Damage to one of the PCs. I'm going to escalate things and Use a monster, Danger, or Location Move. Boom. (Infernal) Venemous Bee Swarm. If they get a 7-9, they escape damage, but perhaps one of their legs are pinned under a branch and an upended and moderately anthologized hive is among the canopy. All sorts of opportunity to engage the fiction via the mechanics (and vice versa). C) [I][B]4e[/B][/I]? Same situation as Dungeon World. Just follow the fiction. Are they in a grove of oak trees? Do I think and ogre can knock one over? Ok. I make my move; Standard Action Terrain Stunt for the Ogre. This would be a Limited Use ability so use that level's Limited Use damage budget for any damage and rider (immobilized, forced movement, prone, or a new Poison Zone of Bees perhaps). Ogre rolls Athletics vs Hard DC, Level + 3 vs Reflex vs PCs, damage/rider effect. All 3 integrated within the scope of the game's basic engine, thus ensuring The Big Three: * balanced/predictable effects (a GM's concern when comparing stunts against standard attack routines) * dynamic, challenging combat with fun/interesting decision-points for GMs and players * coherent genre fiction. [HR][/HR] Of note, I don't think 5e's combat engine is inherently incapable of functionally engendering this kind of stuff as SOP (and ensuring The Big Three). But (a) more robust stunting guidelines for PCs and NPCs alike and/or (b) a large suite of balanced/system integrated dynamic monster abilities to pick and choose from would definitely help! [/QUOTE]
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