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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6991418" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Actually that is games and RPGs generally and D&amp;D specifically logic.&nbsp; More powerful abilities are limited in their use (for balance) and the narrative justification is &quot;stuff.&quot;Likely not but we're both clearly gluttons for punishment (though my appetite is virtually nill these days) so let us continue!I don't know what the point of this is.&nbsp; We've discussed this also in the past.&nbsp; I sub for a flakey GM probably once every 3 weeks and just improv his game based on the players description of the last few sessions.&nbsp; I've been doing that nearly since release.&nbsp;&nbsp; With playtests and some random dungeon crawls, that probably puts my GM time somewhere around 175 hours.&nbsp; Therefore, I've GMed far more 5e in the last year and half than I have 4e.&nbsp; Does that make me a 5e GM?I've GMed more hours in indie games than I have 4e.&nbsp; Does that make me an indie GM?I've GMed probably GMed 5000 hours of AD&amp;D/BECMI (16 years), which is probably a little bit more than (or equal to) all of 3.x + 4e + 5e (another 16 years) combined.&nbsp; Does that make me an AD&amp;D/BECMI GM?I don't understand the point of &quot;do you?&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; I assume this is rhetorical device?&nbsp; Obviously you pick one.&nbsp; But you don't do so arbitrarily (which seems to be the implication)!1)&nbsp; My prior post on this (with examples in C+, DW, 4e) had riders from a bee swarm as a new threat to immobilized/prone/grappled (there could be others), so I said something about riders.&nbsp; Its part and parcel of &quot;dynamically changing the fiction&quot; while facing players with new decision-points laden with some level of tactical depth (which were stipulations for healthy mechanical improv).&nbsp; Merely MOAR (AOE) DAMAGE doesn't live up to that (even if the fiction changes in mechanically-indifferent ways -&nbsp; [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] 's &quot;mere color&quot;).&nbsp; You may not agree with that, but I certainly do (they're my words afterall).&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Ok, let me see if I have your adjudication correct.a)&nbsp; Strength attack with no proficiency bonus so +4 to hit.&nbsp; Setback damage at 1d10 rather than 4d10.&nbsp; The latter is &quot;hit by a falling bookcase&quot; vs &quot;hit by falling rubble in a collapsing tunnel&quot;.&nbsp; However, since he is alone, you would likely bump the damage up to 2d10 (&quot;hit by lightning&quot; or &quot;fall into firepit&quot;).&nbsp; b)&nbsp; You don't provide an AoE size.&nbsp; Maybe 30 foot canopy and only the middle third of the tree (as higher foliage is less robust/dense).&nbsp; So 30 by...30?c)&nbsp; You don't provide a miss effect.&nbsp; Lesser control rider?d)&nbsp; Your hit rider would be prone under the tree along with the requirement of a Strength check DC10 (setback) to get out from under the tree's branches/trunk.&nbsp; You don't stipulate a very key part of this.&nbsp; Is this Strength check an Action?&nbsp; e)&nbsp; Further, you didn't respond to my question about &quot;should the Ogre have to make a Str (Athletics) check as part of the Improvised Action to push over the tree.&quot;&nbsp; Does that mean that you don't or you just missed this part?&nbsp; If you do, then what DC would it be?&nbsp; My prior post indicates that 5e's SOP of grounding DCs objectively in the world would likely put this (IMO thematically appropriate) action outside of the realm of a sensible GM action declaration for the Ogre because the DC should probably be 20 or 25 (hard to very hard for your average person).&nbsp; If 25, then the Ogre outright cannot do it (+4 with no Athletics).&nbsp; Even at 20, the compound probability math of +4 vs DC 20 and +4 to hit vs whatever the PC (s) AC(s) would be is not very good.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6991418, member: 6696971"] Actually that is games and RPGs generally and D&D specifically logic. More powerful abilities are limited in their use (for balance) and the narrative justification is "stuff." Likely not but we're both clearly gluttons for punishment (though my appetite is virtually nill these days) so let us continue! I don't know what the point of this is. We've discussed this also in the past. I sub for a flakey GM probably once every 3 weeks and just improv his game based on the players description of the last few sessions. I've been doing that nearly since release. With playtests and some random dungeon crawls, that probably puts my GM time somewhere around 175 hours. Therefore, I've GMed far more 5e in the last year and half than I have 4e. Does that make me a 5e GM? I've GMed more hours in indie games than I have 4e. Does that make me an indie GM? I've GMed probably GMed 5000 hours of AD&D/BECMI (16 years), which is probably a little bit more than (or equal to) all of 3.x + 4e + 5e (another 16 years) combined. Does that make me an AD&D/BECMI GM? I don't understand the point of "do you?" I assume this is rhetorical device? Obviously you pick one. But you don't do so [I]arbitrarily[/I] (which seems to be the implication)! 1) My prior post on this (with examples in C+, DW, 4e) had riders from a bee swarm as a new threat to immobilized/prone/grappled (there could be others), so I said something about riders. Its part and parcel of "dynamically changing the fiction" while facing players with new decision-points laden with some level of tactical depth (which were stipulations for healthy mechanical improv). Merely MOAR (AOE) DAMAGE doesn't live up to that (even if the fiction changes in mechanically-indifferent ways - [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] 's "mere color"). You may not agree with that, but I certainly do (they're my words afterall). 2) Ok, let me see if I have your adjudication correct. a) Strength attack with no proficiency bonus so +4 to hit. Setback damage at 1d10 rather than 4d10. The latter is "hit by a falling bookcase" vs "hit by falling rubble in a collapsing tunnel". However, since he is alone, you would likely bump the damage up to 2d10 ("hit by lightning" or "fall into firepit"). b) You don't provide an AoE size. Maybe 30 foot canopy and only the middle third of the tree (as higher foliage is less robust/dense). So 30 by...30? c) You don't provide a miss effect. Lesser control rider? d) Your hit rider would be prone under the tree along with the requirement of a Strength check DC10 (setback) to get out from under the tree's branches/trunk. You don't stipulate a very key part of this. Is this Strength check an Action? e) Further, you didn't respond to my question about "should the Ogre have to make a Str (Athletics) check as part of the Improvised Action to push over the tree." Does that mean that you don't or you just missed this part? If you do, then what DC would it be? My prior post indicates that 5e's SOP of grounding DCs objectively in the world would likely put this (IMO thematically appropriate) action outside of the realm of a sensible GM action declaration for the Ogre because the DC should probably be 20 or 25 (hard to very hard for your average person). If 25, then the Ogre outright cannot do it (+4 with no Athletics). Even at 20, the compound probability math of +4 vs DC 20 and +4 to hit vs whatever the PC (s) AC(s) would be is not very good. [/QUOTE]

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