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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6991536" data-attributes="member: 48965">Going to disagree... depends on the game, circumstance, etc... all things being equal...there is nothing that limits the number of times I can try to hit one with a Greatsword vs. a Dagger in D&D and yet one does objectively more damage than the other.As long as you understand we're pretty much entrenched... why not.You quoted three points I made to another poster when they claimed an improvised weapon used by an Ogre would be worse than using a javelin... here let me refresh your memory1. The improvised weapon rules in the PHB specifically reference characters.2. The DMG has rules for improvising damage... pg. 2493. Why are we assuming a cow thrown by an Ogre does the same damage a character would do with... broken glass, table leg, a frying pan, dead goblin or wagon wheel?Are you disputing any of this?  Nowhere did I argue these rules were or were not granular enough specifically for you... and yet for some reason here we are debating a point I don't think is in question... for you they aren't.And you expected me to remember that?    Sure you've DM'd 5e... I figured it was better to ask than to assume... but apparently there was something wrong with me asking that.Who cares for the purposes of this discussion we are talking about 5e... Again see my above answerSo in a discussion about whether improv rules are sufficient or not, you don't think whether someone actually runs the game or not is relevant?  It's the difference between a actual quarterback and an armchair one... and I have no problem admitting 9 time out of 10 I'm going to respect the opinions of an actual quarterback, as they pertain to the game, more than an armchair one.  No you don't but the entire conversation has had context (Ogre's are underpowered for their CR) which helps direct that choice... at least in this situation (let's remember this was about improvised damage originally)...Was that what I was talking about?  I was addressing a specific problem in the context of the thread and discussion... I wasn't looking for riders or effects or complicated tactics because I agree with the fiction and thus the tactics of the Ogre being brutish and simplistic.  IMO...that fiction and color start to break down when he throws a tree that has riders, effects, damage, etc. that must all be resolved by me and then dealt with and/or planned around by the PC's.  Suddenly a simple brutish fight has become a tactical back and forth... that's not what I want with an Ogre.    (Only if I'm throwing a rider on there...which again I think actively detracts from the feel I want in this fight) Again because you desire a rider in this particular ogre fight (again this was about improvised damage, being worse than his regular attacks)... can I ask what these riders add to what, IMO, should be a brutal and savage fight as opposed to nuanced and tactical?  Nope I want it as a single attack... it's a sapling or small tree...How about, oh I don't know... he misses??  The effect is no damage is done to his target.That would be your rider.  I think a tree throwing attack of 4d6 damage and max hit points makes this a brutal fight for 1st - 3rd level characters... I don't think all of the other bells and whistles are needed here.  But yes lifting/pushing the tree (interacting with an object) is an action.I did answer... it's an attack roll using Strength... there is no roll to lift the tree.  How have you decided it's impossible for the ogre to lift and throw the tree...have we defined what type of tree this is?  If you're imaging an ancient Redwood and I'm thinking  a Redwood sapling... well those are two different things aren't they?</blockquote>

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