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<blockquote data-quote="IceFractal" data-source="post: 4068046" data-attributes="member: 27704">Just to clarify a couple of points:From everything they've said about 4E, a Fighter (Defender) will be doing less damage than a Rogue (Striker).&nbsp; Yes, and in 3E it was literally applied up to 6+ times per round no matter which power or attack you're using.&nbsp; And it was about twice as many dice.&nbsp; So this is, by any definition, considerably less damage than before.True.&nbsp; However, we have seen several Rogue powers, including a 9th level &quot;daily&quot; power - and it does considerably less than a 3E 9th level Rogue's &quot;at will&quot; power (Sneak Attack).&nbsp; Unless the power scale goes rapidly exponential after 9th level (something they said they were avoiding), then we end up with &quot;daily&quot; powers that are weaker than a 3E rogue's normal sneak attacks.And as far as round speed - round speed is irrelevant in terms of how long a battle takes to run.&nbsp; The relevant factors are how many attacks are required, and how long each attack takes to resolve.&nbsp; And it's looking like this could easily be slower than 3E.Which is faster?&nbsp; This:Player 1: 5' step, attack, attack, attackPlayer 2: move, attack, attack (Manyshot <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )Monster: attack, attack, attackOr this?Player 1: 5' step, attackPlayer 2: move, attackMonster: attackPlayer 1: attack, swift actionPlayer 2: move, attackMonster: attack, swift actionPlayer 1: attack, movePlayer 2: move, attack, swift actionMonster: move, attackOne attack per round only speeds things up if you combine that with less total attacks being required.&nbsp; Otherwise, it's as if you could move and use swift actions between each attack of a full-attack action.&nbsp; And when it actually takes more total attacks, it's hard to see how it won't be slower.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IceFractal, post: 4068046, member: 27704"] Just to clarify a couple of points: From everything they've said about 4E, a Fighter (Defender) will be doing less damage than a Rogue (Striker). Yes, and in 3E it was literally applied up to 6+ times per round no matter which power or attack you're using. And it was about twice as many dice. So this is, by any definition, considerably less damage than before. True. However, we [I]have[/I] seen several Rogue powers, including a 9th level "daily" power - and it does considerably less than a 3E 9th level Rogue's "at will" power (Sneak Attack). Unless the power scale goes rapidly exponential after 9th level (something they said they were avoiding), then we end up with "daily" powers that are weaker than a 3E rogue's normal sneak attacks. And as far as round speed - round speed is irrelevant in terms of how long a battle takes to run. The relevant factors are how many attacks are required, and how long each attack takes to resolve. And it's looking like this could easily be slower than 3E. Which is faster? This: Player 1: 5' step, attack, attack, attack Player 2: move, attack, attack (Manyshot ;) ) Monster: attack, attack, attack Or this? Player 1: 5' step, attack Player 2: move, attack Monster: attack Player 1: attack, swift action Player 2: move, attack Monster: attack, swift action Player 1: attack, move Player 2: move, attack, swift action Monster: move, attack One attack per round only speeds things up if you combine that with less total attacks being required. Otherwise, it's as if you could move and use swift actions between each attack of a full-attack action. And when it actually takes more total attacks, it's hard to see how it won't be slower. [/QUOTE]

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