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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 6430830" data-attributes="member: 43019">I think there are a few things at work here:1) Wizards are very swingy, due to variableness. Sometimes Sleep will affect 10 hp, sometimes it'll affect 30+. Dealing 1d10+0 damage may be 5.5 average but if something has 5 hp, you're going to drop it 60% of the time while your friend dealing 1d8+4 drops it 100% of the time. Ditto with saving throws.2) The spells at low levels are not particularly balanced. Witch Bolt is a terrible trap. Sleep is quite good. Burning Hands and Thunderwave are unfortunately sized AEs that will see tremendous variance by table. 3) Low level cantrips suck. They're actually subpar at almost all levels, but at higher levels they're at least not outclassed by, as a friend of mine referred to it, his mightiest and most effective spell: Ye Olde Crossbow. 4) The best and most interesting parts of the wizard do not come out under a mechanical spotlight, and may even not be allowed depending on the DM.5) Many other classes that get full spell lists get other things that seem to outclass the wizard at low level. Clerics, druids, and bards are all far more functional outside of their spell pyramid.6) The low-level wizards' niche for specialness is easily drowned in a large group with multiple spellcasters.Personally, I agree that the wizard underperforms at low level, such that I think you almost have to select certain spells and schools to avoid being subpar. I've been at several different tables that have independently concluded that a Tempest Cleric makes a better "boom mage" than an invoker at low levels, for example.That said, a diviner with sleep, can really be a tremendous combat solver. Just for every one of those, how many witch bolt hurling wizards are there? Or wizards who need to get into very specific squares to use the tiny AE of Burning Hands, then get dropped by monsters for exposing themselves?Anyhow, I think things start to turn around after a few levels, and 5th+ start looking _much_ better. Fireballing slinging invokers? Yeah, we want that! As with half the discussions of 5E that I've seen, one great solution remains: don't start at 1st level. Start at 4th level. The system has low level issues.</blockquote>

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