Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="chriton227" data-source="post: 6431644" data-attributes="member: 33263">I pulled both my 2e and 3.5e PHBs, neither one said anything about the target not being aware that they had been charmed.  In fact, the 2e version explicitly states that the target retains full memory of what they did when charmed.  When the charm wears off, they will at least know something was up since they will remember doing things that they wouldn't have otherwise done.  Additionally in 3.5e it just set the attitude to "friendly" which I would equate to the 5e term "friendly acquaintance".  A close friend that would take risks for you would be the 3.5e attitude "helpful".I haven't finished reading the entire thread so someone else may have already pointed this out, but Web only automatically collapses due to lack of anchor points if you cast it as the full 20' cube.  So you could cast it as a 20'x20' square, 5' deep, and not need any anchors at all.  And even if a target saves or escapes, they could be pushed back in with something like Thunderwave or by anyone in the party making a shove as a melee attack, forcing the target to save again.  If they fail and are restrained they become prime targets for range attacks or even a burning hands (disadvantage on Reflex saves plus an extra 2d4 damage damage with no save).I don't see where the low level wizard spells have been nerfed in general, most of them seem better in at least some ways, and the cantrips especially are greatly improved.  Let's look at some examples:Clearly betterRay of Frost: 5e is 1d8 damage (increasing with level), range 60', slows, and unlimited uses.  3.5e is 1d3 damage (never increasing), close range (starts at 25'), no side effect, and limited uses (3-4 per day).Alarm: 5e is a 20' cube, 8 hour duration, and can be cast as a ritual (no slot required). 3.5e is a 20' radius (larger area), lasts 2 hours/level (shorter until level 5), and takes a spell slot.  2e is a 20' cube, 4 hours + 0.5hrs/level (shorter until level 9), and takes a spell slot. Acid Splash: 5e is 1d6 damage (increasing with level), range 60, can hit 2 adjacent targets, save negates, and unlimited uses. 3.5e is 1d3 damage, single target, hit roll required, and limited uses (3-4 per day)Arguably betterMage Armor: 5e lasts lasts 8 hours.  In 3.5e you would need to be level 8 to get the same duration, and in 2e it lasted until you take 8 points + 1 point per level, so one or two good hits and it is gone.  The armor bonus did get decreased from effectively +4 to +3 though.Magic Missile: 5e you get 3 missiles that can be individually targeted against any target in range, and by using higher level slots you can get up to 11 missiles.  In 3.5e you wouldn't get 3 missiles until you were level 5, get a maximum of 5 missile at level 9 (although still using a level 1 spell slot) and all targets had to be within 15' of each other.   In 2e the missile progression is the same as 3.5e, but the targets all had to be in a 10' cube.Chill Touch: 5e is 1d8 damage (increase with level), 120' range, prevents healing for a round, and give undead disadvantage on attacks for a round, and can be used an unlimited number of times.  3.5e is 1d6 damage plus a point of Str (Fort negates) but a touch attack (not ranged), can be used for 1 attack per level, and undead take no damage but are panicked if the fail a Will save. 2e is 1d4 damage plus a point of Str (save negates both), melee attack, can be used for 3+ rounds, and undead take no damage but flee if they fail a save.Protection from Evil (and Good): 5e version is based on creature type instead of alignment, blocks possession, charm, and fear, attacks on the target are at disadvantage, and lasts up to 10 minutes.  3.5e gives a bonus to +2 bonus AC and save against evil, blocks possession, charm, and enchantment (not fear), prevents summoned creatures from making bodily contact, and lasts 1 minute per level. 2e is largely the same as 3.5e, but only lasts 2 rounds per level.Burning Hands: 5e is a 15' cone for 3d6 damage (save for half) that can be increased to a max of 11d6 with higher level slots. 3.5e is a 15' cone for 1d4/level (save for half, max 5d6); so less average damage until level 5. 2e is a 5' cone for 1d3+ 2/level (save for half, max 1d3+20), so much shorter range and less average damage until level 5. Shocking Grasp: 5e is 1d8 damage (increasing with level), advantage if the target is wearing metal armor, and unlimited uses. 3.5e is 1d6/level (max 5d6) with a +3 to hit targets with metal armor, but limited castings per day. 2e is 1d8 + 1/level, no bonus for metal armor, and limited castings per day. Sleep: 5e is 5d8 HP of targets (can be increased to a max of 21d8 with a 9th level slot), no save, 20' radius.  3.5e is up to 4 HD total (on average 18 HP worth), save negates, 10' radius.  2e is 2d4 HD, creatures with 4+3 HD or more are immune, no save, 15' radius.Notably weakerColor Spray: In 5e blinds for 1 round, no save, but affects a limited number of HP of targets. 3.5e can KO, stun, and blind and can affect more targets, but save negates.  2e is larger (5'x20'x20'), affects 1d6 targets, can KO, stun, and blind, and only allows saves for targets with 6+ HD or more HD than the spell caster's level.Charm Person: Big difference is duration, 5e is 1 hour, 3.5e is 1 hour per level, and 2e is until the target saves with the save interval based on target duration (1 day to 3 months)</blockquote>

Verification