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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6520322" data-attributes="member: 2011">For someone talking about what "other people say" and "how they say it" and how "incorrect they are", you throw nonsense into the conversation and make minor digs at others as much as anyone. He never said that they always make their saves. He said that it is nearly impossible for 3 casters to burn through a dragon's legendary resistance before the Dragon wipes the party.Here's another example. While what you said about Phantasmal Force here is technically accurate, it does a whopping 1D6 damage from an illusionary Air Elemental. The Dragon sees the caster cast a spell, the Dragon sees the Air Elemental, the Dragon assumes the caster summoned an Air Elemental, and the Dragon, being intelligent, attacks the caster, not the Elemental. The Elemental then comes up and does 1D6 damage to the Dragon.The discussion on Phantasmal Force is a red herring. It has nothing real to do with a real fight with a dragon.Phantasmal Force is a joke against a Dragon. Your example of a Phantasmal Force Web spell. If a Dragon falls through a Phantasmal bridge, it flies through a Phantasmal Web spell. The Web spell is not there. Such an illusion does nothing. The Dragon assumes that it pushed through the web, just like any creature that saves against a normal web spell.If you can come up with an example of how Phantasmal Force actually would affect something as powerful as a dragon, great. So far, the examples for it are extremely subpar.What you pointed out isn't relevant to the PCs, only the Dragon. PCs knowing about Legendary Resistance is a metagame concept. It's a game mechanic like hit points. PCs should not know about it. Obviously, more than one person disagrees with you on this.What you pointed out was it was a choice of the Dragon to use the ability or not. That does not imply that PCs know or even should know about the ability because even the concept of saves is something that PCs shouldn't know about. PCs know that sometimes, they get lucky and jump out of the way of part of the Fireball. They do not know about saves, hence, they do not know about any ability that allows for an auto-save. It's game mechanics that allow the DM to adjudicate the action and results.It's not something PCs have knowledge of. Dragons do. They have an inner reserve and they know how to use it, but they won't tell others of it. It's their ability. But, it's not an ability that PCs can observe. The Dragon is just kick butt and spells almost never affect it unless its been in battle for a while (and even then, PCs might just assume that it is wounded and spells affect it more, they still don't know why).A DM could have a Dragon tell the PCs of this ability, but this should be the rare exception in the campaign, not the rule. Trying to blow through Legendary Resistance in 99 campaigns out of 100 is the players using knowledge that the PCs shouldn't have. Your support of such a tactic via Phantasmal Force means that you support players making metagame decisions. IMO.Personally, I agree with Celtavian. Unless the DM makes mistakes with a dragon in its lair, blowing through legendary resistance is typically not going to happen in the majority of PC vs. dragon fights at most tables and trying to do so by throwing weaker spells earlier on is obviously metagaming on the part of the players. None of the examples others have made on how to blow through it have been that impressive yet and people have been looking through the PHB for a couple of days now trying to come up with good spell combos against a dragon and have not succeeded very well yet. It's not going to happen in the spur of the moment at a gaming table too often.</blockquote>

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