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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6520497" data-attributes="member: 5834">Karinsdad,I gave up on discussing the subject with emdw45. There's always a few guys on any forum that think they know better how things work than other people. I always read early on and then wait until I personally experience it. Just like with anything, theory doesn't mean anything once the bullets start flying. There are all kinds of logistical issues with magic. You don't have any time to burn down Legendary Resistance casting spells that "help the party while hurting the creature." Not many of those spells exist and you need to get in action quick and hard or the dragon will out damage the party and kill everyone. That is my experience. Same with the non-dragon legendary creature. If I hadn't layered on some damage, he would have killed the fighter in two rounds. Then there are the concentration problems. They are not just spell limitations. Wizards are practically forced to take either Warcaster or Resilient Con. Otherwise you have a 14 to 16 Con and a +2 to 3 Con save. Concentration checks for even 1 point of damage are DC 10. That means you only maintain concentration on a 7 or 8 or better. That is 65 to 70% of the time on any hit that allows a DC 10 Con save. Between lair actions and legendary actions, you have to make one or two concentration checks a round against a Legendary Creature a lot of the time. I bought Resilient Con because I wanted a good Con save for other purposes like cold and poison attacks. Cleric bought warcaster. I think the bard bought Resilient Con. Losing concentration at higher level when spells like fly even on multiple targets requires touch and protection from energy requires touch means you don't want to lose it and then try to move into melee combat range to get it back up.It's a much tougher game on casters. I'm still trying to figure out the best means to bring my magic to bear on a Legendary Creature while maintaining a flexible spell list for dealing with other dangerous threats and the odd non-combat problem we have to deal with. That's why I always have to chuckle when I get these suggestions about how to use my spell resources as though I can prepare my list solely for the legendary dragon, when there are other concerns than the single legendary creature that must be taken into account when preparing a spell list. What if the creature has minions with him? What if you have to kill all his lair guardians on the way to him? What if there are serious terrain issues within the lair to deal with? The martials can't handle these types of problems. For all their great damage dealing capabilities, they are still very limited in what they can do. It's up to the casters, usually the wizard, to have the proper spell selection for dealing with the variety of combat and non-combat problems that a party must deal with.One example is see invisibility. I didn't have this spell memorized because of the limited spell selection at level 4. Then we fought an invisible creature. It was tearing us up and not even legendary. I have never taken that spell off my memorized list since that fight. An invisible mage able to move, cast, and move is hard to pin down. Misty Step I keep on their for similar reasons having dealt with difficult terrain and harsh AoO attacks from tough creatures. It's a different world for casters now, that is for certain. I'm still in the learning stages of 5E caster mastery.</blockquote>

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