Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="sunshadow21" data-source="post: 6588872" data-attributes="member: 6667193">In the amount of party and DM cooperation it apparently takes to get some of the spells in 5E to work properly, the comparison is apt. Requiring a party member to be able to grapple an enemy caster for silence to work is just as bad as requiring the fighter to get into just the right position for the rogue to be able to use sneak attack. Just like sneak attack, the problem isn't just the spells, it's getting into a position to use the ability without wasting it or dying in the process. It wasn't much fun with the rogue, and I can't imagine it's that much fun for the player playing the wizard either, at least as far as most people are going to be concerned. There's wanting teamwork and there's being just plain absurd, and a lot of the stuff I've seen in this thread goes too far into the absurd territory for me to be all that interested in even attempting to deal with it.-------As for the spell list, I'm seeing the same basic complaints with 5E spells in general that I did with the 3rd edition cleric list at low levels. It's not a lack of power, it's a lack of usefulness. They are so focused on power of the overall spell list that most of the individual spells are made so specific so as to be rendered mostly a waste of time if the DM chooses to be hyper finicky on exactly what the different spells can do. The length of the list is actually a large part of the problem, because the devs are either forced to water down all of the spells on the list to keep the overall power of the list manageable, or have the issues that came up in 3rd edition. I'm actually reaching a point with both PF and D&D in general where the straight wizard or even cleric usually isn't worth it because of this. I'm definitely starting to prefer classes that don't rely almost entirely on their spell list because they tend to be a lot more fun at the table for everyone and a lot less headache at the same time. Partial casters or even full casters that don't rely just on their spell list (like the witch from PF) are a lot more fun, flavorful, and easier to both play and, if needed, fix without having to completely rewrite their entire spell list.</blockquote>

Verification