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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sunshadow21" data-source="post: 6588986" data-attributes="member: 6667193">One spell that was a lot better throughout all of the previous editions that had it, and a spell that a lot of people really liked. And it's not the only one in that boat or even the only one mentioned in this thread. Charm Person was never the easiest of spells to use in earlier editions, and now seems largely useless on top of the challenge of being intended for use in scenarios where open spell casting is frowned upon. The fact that it takes so much more effort to make many of these spells now work even half as well as they used to is a bit silly to me. And the stuff they did on the positive side just don't really excite me, even if they are nice and do their intended jobs well enough. Cantrips are nice, but they're no substitute for more spell slots to cast more actual spells. The loosening up of the rules for prepared spells is something that I've seen as more or less normal in most of the 3rd edition or PF games I've ever played in, so aside from seeing the recognition of it in the formal rules, it really doesn't mean much. The ritual spells are nice, but they don't really make up for the overusage of the concentration mechanic or the limited spell slots; from what I've seen, the ritual spell tag sees less and less use as levels progress whereas the concentration tag does not. In the end, the positive changes they made to casting simply aren't enough to balance out by the cuts and limitations added, at least for me.I get that the wizard is still perfectly effective with the right spells and tactics, but it is not anywhere near where it used to be in terms of either versatility or fun for a lot of people, as this thread shows, even with all the positive changes they made in 5E. Some people will be perfectly happy with the trade offs made, especially on the improvements made to the martial classes, but to many of those that actually liked the casting classes before, the sum of all the changes is not a positive one; the cuts simply go too deep for no real good reason, creating problems of their own in the process of trying to avoid even a hint of the power that 3rd edition casters had. I don't have a problem with what they did as much as how they did it and how much they did. Heavy usage of the concentration mechanic, cutting spell slots, and nerfing a lot of the spells would have been fine individually and/or in smaller doses of each, but done all together and all very heavily is simply way too much. I could even see some spells requiring party help for maximum results, but not when paired with the high chance of the enemies making their saves already limiting the usefulness of a large number of spells at the same time and all of the other limits put on casting.</blockquote>

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