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<blockquote data-quote="Malovaan" data-source="post: 6592861" data-attributes="member: 6790465">I would expect that the DM gives the NPC an investigation check on his round to see if he decides to feel around inside the box or something and whether he reveals that its an illusion. I agree that a DM just totally disallowing it by saying the NPC touches it or somesuch would be incredibly strict. On the other hand though, I do think that a DM does need to be a bit careful in what he allows, making sure that this cantrip spell doesn't take the place of higher level illusion spells. I'm definitely in the camp of &quot;DMs should say YES&quot;, but it does need to be tempered a bit so that they aren't allowing things that are way off what spell descriptions imply. Personally I'm really hoping my L3 wizard gets a chance at using his newly taken Phantasmal Force in our session today, but I'm not sure how open to DM interpretation that one is going to end up being!As to the rest of this thread, I'm not convinced that wizards are weak at low levels, I haven't seen it really. As for the not being useful until fireball at level 5... what about the damage output of scorching ray at L3? That seems a massive bonus to our party, even if its restricted to just one or two castings a day. Couple that with all the useful things the wizard can potentially do to alter the odds of an encounter in our favour - web, sleep, hold person, phantasmal force, minor illusion, colour spray, grease, etc, etc - then I reckon they aren't in a bad place at all. Plus you can't complain at being able to chuck a mote of fire at-will every round either <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Malovaan, post: 6592861, member: 6790465"] I would expect that the DM gives the NPC an investigation check on his round to see if he decides to feel around inside the box or something and whether he reveals that its an illusion. I agree that a DM just totally disallowing it by saying the NPC touches it or somesuch would be incredibly strict. On the other hand though, I do think that a DM does need to be a bit careful in what he allows, making sure that this [b]cantrip[/b] spell doesn't take the place of higher level illusion spells. I'm definitely in the camp of "DMs should say YES", but it does need to be tempered a bit so that they aren't allowing things that are way off what spell descriptions imply. Personally I'm really hoping my L3 wizard gets a chance at using his newly taken Phantasmal Force in our session today, but I'm not sure how open to DM interpretation that one is going to end up being! As to the rest of this thread, I'm not convinced that wizards are weak at low levels, I haven't seen it really. As for the not being useful until fireball at level 5... what about the damage output of scorching ray at L3? That seems a massive bonus to our party, even if its restricted to just one or two castings a day. Couple that with all the useful things the wizard can potentially do to alter the odds of an encounter in our favour - web, sleep, hold person, phantasmal force, minor illusion, colour spray, grease, etc, etc - then I reckon they aren't in a bad place at all. Plus you can't complain at being able to chuck a mote of fire at-will every round either ;) [/QUOTE]

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