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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6595779" data-attributes="member: 2011">It's not so much thinking that the 23 gnolls are in an arena, it's thinking that there are a ton of things that a DM can do to make the unexpected happen. As a DM, I like challenging my PCs. If the players use similar tactics over and over (which with the limits of 3rd level spells and abilities, they would have to), I would sometimes throw something new at them.It just takes a single secret corridor to mess up this entire attack, or alternatively, just other ways around to that first room.A Shove that works opens the flood gates to a lot of attacks per round.A successful Grapple and then pull the PC 15 feet around the corner so that this one PC is separated from the group while a flood of gnolls stream by. Grapple movement is automatic, the enemy just has to win the check. Bless doesn't help against this.And why are the NPCs fighting in such a disadvantageous setting? The Fang is just as smart as some PCs in most games.There are so many options. The claim was that the party is so optimized and so stealthy and so capable that the DM often makes the challenges tougher then normal CR. That isn't necessary. Just do the unexpected. The gnolls don't know about some things, so they should not use the optimal tactics, but then again, there should be some things the PCs do not know so that they cannot use optimal tactics. They use the tactics they know. They might not work (at least in my game).When someone claims that the PCs mostly control where and when combat takes place, I have to wonder. How the heck does that happen?In our game, sometimes the PCs are in control, but often, the monsters are in control. The monsters know their terrain and their homes, not the PCs. Yup, a bat could fly in and scout out the territory. A bat can also get shot because some gnolls likes bat meat. For all the PCs know, the gnolls have scouts out in the wilderness that spot them as they approaching from miles away and report back about intruders. For all the PCs know, the Gnolls have a Shaman who throws a Flaming Sphere back at them.This combat worked out for him. Cool. Glad he had fun. It just seems odd that it worked out so perfect against such a vastly superior force and that he claims that this is typical for his group. Almost as if someone was helping the players manage this. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

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