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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7364350" data-attributes="member: 18">Having played a fair bit of 5E recently (as a player, not a DM, for once in my goddamn life!), I'd say that is true at mid-high levels, for sure, but this thread originated discussing low levels, and looking at low levels, it's certainly fair to say that Wizards are rather weak, in comparison to virtually any other class in the same level range.Claiming that's "down to the player" doesn't really make a great deal of sense.I mean, sure, a better player will make better use of their very limited resources and abilities. A more experienced and willing to min-max player will also likely have a more powerful character in terms of build. But you must then compare that to the same player playing a different class - any with very many classes and sub-classes, they will be drastically more effective at low levels.All you can really do to be successful is a low-level Wizard is:1) Make sure you have a familiar and understand how best to use that familiar.2) Pick the "right" spells and cantrips, a very limited selection - what's interesting to me here is that this is actually an arguably worse situation than 2E in some ways (notice all the qualifiers - ritual magic, picking your starting spells, and cantrips being infinite help, but they also limit what is valid - and with bonus spells from INT and specialization in 2E you probably had more 1st and 2nd level spells at lower levels).3) Be very careful in positioning, because you have both a terrible AC and terrible HP.4) Probably find a non-magical way to do ranged damage because it's almost certainly better than your cantrips (though the exact math will be complex depending on your targets, which attack cantrip you have - because you probably only have one and probably only should have one or zero, and what access to weapons you have - an elf with a longbow for example is in a pretty good place because you likely have good DEX).Once you get to significantly higher levels, especially one you get up near and into the double-digit levels, you start having so many spells with so many powerful effects that you may well not even be physically able to cast them all before a long rest hits. At that point, how cunning the player is becomes huge, moreso than with many/most classes.I just don't think it's helpful to suggest 5E doesn't have many of the same issues with low-level Wizards that 3E and earlier editions had, and simply blame the player.</blockquote>

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