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*Dungeons & Dragons
Low levels: Offense vs. Defense
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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 7345018" data-attributes="member: 6932123"><p>I did account for crit dice in my counts. That's why I give [X dice of 20] as the comparitive measure. If you need to roll a 19 or 20 to hit, that's 3 dice, not 2. And it's out of 20 because the other 18 rolls miss.</p><p></p><p>It's not perfect, as the non-dice additions will skew the results some, but it seemed to work well enough.</p><p></p><p>I also just gave approximations on the higher AC reductions — "(almost) half", and "another third" — because exact calculations at that point seemed like they weren't needed. The point was just to show that the scaling rate increased as AC increased.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's exactly what my comparisons between the one-handed weapon and the two-handed weapon were about. </p><p></p><p>If the enemy has initiative over you, and it takes 2 rounds to kill one mob, and there are two mobs attacking you, then in the first two rounds you spend killing the first mob, you're hit 4 times, and then in the next two rounds killing the second mob, you're hit an additional 2 times, for 6 hits total. If it takes 3 rounds to kill a mob, you take 9 hits total. If you had initiave, then each mob doesn't get to attack you on the round that you kill it, so you get hit 4 times and 7 times, respectively. And then scale it based on accuracy relative to AC to get the final damage dice totals.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I was comparing how much damage was taken by the character based on how often he was hit, which in turn was based on both AC and how many times the mob had a chance to attack before it was killed. I can't help what may happen in any specific circumstances, but I can say that <em>on average</em>, he will take less damage while using the two-handed weapon because the fights are shorter, despite the enemy having a better chance to hit him. </p><p></p><p>There are four or five different factors that swing the value between the defensive and the offensive setup, though, and you just need to see which way the fight is leaning.</p><p></p><p>As for statistical likelihoods... </p><p></p><p>Suppose you're 1st level, with like 12 HP. The enemy can hit you for 8. So getting hit once hurts, and getting hit twice (or getting critted) can kill you.</p><p></p><p>The 5% crit chance always exists.</p><p></p><p>Chance of being hurt is 15% when a 17 is needed, 20% when a 16 is needed, 25% when a 15 is needed, 30% when a 14 is needed, 35% when a 13 is needed, and 40% when a 12 is needed.</p><p></p><p>Assuming a cleric can heal you twice, what are your odds of death?</p><p></p><p>In all cases, the 5% crit will kill you, so we'll ignore that. A single hit is survivable, if the cleric can get to you. You're unlikely to take more than 3 total hits, under either hypothetical, though there's a small chance of 4. So the real question is, what are the odds of getting hit twice in the same round, before the cleric can heal you? This can only happen if two mobs are on you, so once you kill one of them, you're mostly safe. I'll only look at the time it takes to kill the first mob.</p><p></p><p>Assuming the enemy has a +2 Str and +2 Prof, for a total of +4 to hit, and the fighter has an AC of 16, or 18 with a shield:</p><p></p><p>1-handed, 18 AC (14 to-be-hit): 35%</p><p>2-handed, 16 AC (12 to-be-hit): 40%</p><p></p><p>Which is pretty substantial, though not much different between the two weapon types. So, yeah, don't fight two mobs at once.</p><p></p><p>If fighting just one mob, what are your odds? In this case, getting hit more times than the cleric can heal, or getting critted?</p><p></p><p>1-handed, 18 AC (14 to-be-hit): 20% (19% chance of crit, 1% chance of taking 4 hits, 2 of which are healed) or 31% from crit chance + 12% chance of taking 3-4 hits if the healer heals just once</p><p>2-handed, 16 AC (12 to-be-hit): 20% (14% chance of crit, 6% chance of taking 3 hits, 1 of which was healed) or ~14% from just the crit chance if the healer heals twice</p><p></p><p>Once you're not dying from a single crit, odds of survival skyrocket. In the 2-handed scenario, if the healer heals you twice, odds of death from normal hits is minimal.</p><p></p><p>You're far more likely to take hits using a 1-handed weapon, but not nearly at the rate that you're reducing the fight duration, which can actually reduce the chance of dying if the healer is otherwise stretched thin.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 7345018, member: 6932123"] I did account for crit dice in my counts. That's why I give [X dice of 20] as the comparitive measure. If you need to roll a 19 or 20 to hit, that's 3 dice, not 2. And it's out of 20 because the other 18 rolls miss. It's not perfect, as the non-dice additions will skew the results some, but it seemed to work well enough. I also just gave approximations on the higher AC reductions — "(almost) half", and "another third" — because exact calculations at that point seemed like they weren't needed. The point was just to show that the scaling rate increased as AC increased. That's exactly what my comparisons between the one-handed weapon and the two-handed weapon were about. If the enemy has initiative over you, and it takes 2 rounds to kill one mob, and there are two mobs attacking you, then in the first two rounds you spend killing the first mob, you're hit 4 times, and then in the next two rounds killing the second mob, you're hit an additional 2 times, for 6 hits total. If it takes 3 rounds to kill a mob, you take 9 hits total. If you had initiave, then each mob doesn't get to attack you on the round that you kill it, so you get hit 4 times and 7 times, respectively. And then scale it based on accuracy relative to AC to get the final damage dice totals. I was comparing how much damage was taken by the character based on how often he was hit, which in turn was based on both AC and how many times the mob had a chance to attack before it was killed. I can't help what may happen in any specific circumstances, but I can say that [I]on average[/I], he will take less damage while using the two-handed weapon because the fights are shorter, despite the enemy having a better chance to hit him. There are four or five different factors that swing the value between the defensive and the offensive setup, though, and you just need to see which way the fight is leaning. As for statistical likelihoods... Suppose you're 1st level, with like 12 HP. The enemy can hit you for 8. So getting hit once hurts, and getting hit twice (or getting critted) can kill you. The 5% crit chance always exists. Chance of being hurt is 15% when a 17 is needed, 20% when a 16 is needed, 25% when a 15 is needed, 30% when a 14 is needed, 35% when a 13 is needed, and 40% when a 12 is needed. Assuming a cleric can heal you twice, what are your odds of death? In all cases, the 5% crit will kill you, so we'll ignore that. A single hit is survivable, if the cleric can get to you. You're unlikely to take more than 3 total hits, under either hypothetical, though there's a small chance of 4. So the real question is, what are the odds of getting hit twice in the same round, before the cleric can heal you? This can only happen if two mobs are on you, so once you kill one of them, you're mostly safe. I'll only look at the time it takes to kill the first mob. Assuming the enemy has a +2 Str and +2 Prof, for a total of +4 to hit, and the fighter has an AC of 16, or 18 with a shield: 1-handed, 18 AC (14 to-be-hit): 35% 2-handed, 16 AC (12 to-be-hit): 40% Which is pretty substantial, though not much different between the two weapon types. So, yeah, don't fight two mobs at once. If fighting just one mob, what are your odds? In this case, getting hit more times than the cleric can heal, or getting critted? 1-handed, 18 AC (14 to-be-hit): 20% (19% chance of crit, 1% chance of taking 4 hits, 2 of which are healed) or 31% from crit chance + 12% chance of taking 3-4 hits if the healer heals just once 2-handed, 16 AC (12 to-be-hit): 20% (14% chance of crit, 6% chance of taking 3 hits, 1 of which was healed) or ~14% from just the crit chance if the healer heals twice Once you're not dying from a single crit, odds of survival skyrocket. In the 2-handed scenario, if the healer heals you twice, odds of death from normal hits is minimal. You're far more likely to take hits using a 1-handed weapon, but not nearly at the rate that you're reducing the fight duration, which can actually reduce the chance of dying if the healer is otherwise stretched thin. [/QUOTE]
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