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Message: <blockquote data-quote="molonel" data-source="post: 3505205" data-attributes="member: 10412">Since I'm running two low-magic games, right now, the odds are pretty good that I already knew that.And the reason you remember those characters?They were the exception.Fair enough.It's called caricature, although I actually have played with DMs who run those sorts of games. I also call them "Pinkeye Campaigns" although a gaming buddy in Toronto coined that term, and I can't take credit for it.If it doesn't apply to you, then why does it bother you?You seem to be missing something, though. You don't play differently than I do. I'm running two games right now. Both are low magic. My players in one of my games ASKED for crit charts, because they were Old Skool gamers who played games like Rolemaster with its delicious and extensive crit charts. I've never had so much fun just reading through crit charts. In my RPGnow cart, I have a book called 10,000,000 ways to die:<a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3870&" target="_blank">http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3870&</a>I make fun of the sometimes errors and problems that arise in the style of gaming I run, myself. If those don't apply to you, great! We're on the same team.You should do so. But those players have different issues than merely enacting a power fantasy.When you save the world, that's a power fantasy. When you toss the One Ring into the lava in Mt. Doom in Mordor where the shadow lies with Sauron's minions bearing down hot on your heels, even if you have suffered tremendously to get there and you're missing a finger because Gollum bit it off, nevertheless, at that particular moment in time you are the most important person in the world.You can call it a secondary attraction, if you like. But try removing it from the game. And see how many times your players come back. I have. I sat down at an RPGA table in Oregon at a Con. The DM asked the players to describe themselves. We all gave a brief description of our characters, except for one woman who was playing an elven bard. She had a beautiful longsword. She had long, beautiful golden hair. She had a long, beautiful cloak. Everything about her character was beautiful. We have, ever since, referred to her as The Beautiful Girl.Now, looking at her? She was a very physically unattractive person. And it was very obvious, from her playing style, that she was living out a fantasy where she was very desirable and beautiful. And while I snickered at her description of herself - the DM had to interrupt and tell her to summarize - I don't make fun of her living out a fantasy through the game. That's what most of us do. It's roleplaying.Ah yes, the MENSA gamers. The people who play RPGs like the Sunday New York Times crossword puzzle. In pen, no less. Not pencil, like the rest of us wimps. You assume that the word "power" concerns violence or strength, but if anything, I'd say some of the guys like this I've run across are MORE concerned with the game as a power fantasy, because they want to exhibit the power of their mind.You're proving my point, here, especially with phrases like "because they feel that these abilities detract from their oppurtunity to show off their problem solving ability" and the fact that they don't like to use force because "they see this as something anyone can do." That's definitely a power fantasy.People express or desire power in different ways. You can be a powerful leader (Charisma), a person to whom people come to for sagely advice (Wisdom), an intelligent solver of puzzles (Intelligence), someone who moves like a blur (Dexterity), or someone like Marv in Sin City who says "I can take it!" (Constitution).Very few people want to play powerLESS characters, though their idea of what constitutes power may differ from player to player.I don't see why it should surprise you. You're often in the middle of many of those discussions expressing your views with great and articulate passion. In fact, since I often participate in those discussions, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that I can nearly count on rubbing shoulders with you in these discussions. If you didn't enjoy it, I think you'd be spending your time somewhere else.In this case, you seem to be reading another discussion, because that's not what's happening here.Those who divide the world into two types, and those who don't?Or, there could be people who legitimately have points on both sides who nevertheless intelligently disagree, and have something to say.Just a thought.I think what happens is that you simply have a clash of gaming styles, with people expressing their desires and preferred method of play. Though I certainly disagree with some people in these discussions, I've never felt that anyone was simply venting their misplaced frustrations from past gaming experiences on me. I simply believe that they somewhere, they are probably sitting at a keyboard at work, as bored as I am, and they want to carry on a vigorous discussion about a game they love very much.</blockquote>

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