Low Magic Grim and Gritty

[Desdichado]

Heh. Yeah, I know--this topic seems to always get caught up in some bizarre controversy. Still, it's been a long time since I saw a thread on it, and I'm curious if anyone's come up with any new strategies for adopting LM/GNG to their games since then.

I've personally backed off a little bit on the more "punishing" mechanics in favor of simpler stuff. My homebrew's seemingly randomly accreted set of d20 mechanics has now been replaced with d20 Modern + d20 Past (Shadow Stalkers(TM) campaign model. With a handful of very minor adoptions from Unearthed Arcana.

One rule that I've found particularly helpful is armor as damage conversion. True; it makes the game less grim, but it also makes the game move along without bogging down too much with recovering from injuries.

Come to think of it, the mechanics of my game aren't so GNG, although they certainly are LM. It's more the details of what's going on in the setting and in the campaigns where the GNG gets to come out.

 

[DM_Jeff]

I do the real simple version. Feats every other level and ability score raises every 3 levels. And I just cut out ability-enhancing items and cut back on magic weapon and shield special powers and make buying magic items non too easy "off the market". It may not be 'low' enough for some, but it takes away a lot of the wahoo-wackiness of going from a Int 14 to an Int 20 just by putting on a stupid headband!

Ah, and for the record I use this model for my Eberron and homebrew, but for Forgotten Reaslms it's RAW due to it's higher-level magic (which CAN be fun too).

-DM Jeff

 

[GlassJaw]

Currently running a Conan game. Everyone is really digging the system. It plays very fast and captures the grim and gritty feel really well. Every session has ended with a huge "OMG that was awesome!" moment.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Currently running a Conan game. Everyone is really digging the system. It plays very fast and captures the grim and gritty feel really well. Every session has ended with a huge "OMG that was awesome!" moment.

Some days, I wish I lived in Rhode Island.

I keep meaning to pick up the Conan rules to round out my GnG collection.

 

[Storm Raven]

Heh. Yeah, I know--this topic seems to always get caught up in some bizarre controversy. Still, it's been a long time since I saw a thread on it, and I'm curious if anyone's come up with any new strategies for adopting LM/GNG to their games since then.

I think that to get any good advice on the "low-magic" element, you have to describe what you mean. It seems to me that different people use "low-magic" to mean one of two things. Either magic is powerful, but rare (there is only one sword of ultimate doom, and it is one of three magic weapons in the entire world, but it lets its owner really whomp his enemies); or magic is more prevalent, but weak (the most powerful magic weapons are +1 pointed sticks and the most powerful spell anyone can cast is reheat leftovers, but casters are common enough that no one uses anything but magic when they want to prepare yesterday's leavings for dinner).

 

[Desdichado]

Well, I thought I spelled it out pretty clearly when I said I was using the mechanics of the Shadow Stalkers campaign model from d20 Past. Any PC can take an Advanced class that allows arcane spells, divine spells or psionics, but the powers are extremely rare to find, difficult to cast and not automatically renewable. I guess in my case I don't use either of your end points, and for purposes of the discussion I hoped to have, it doesn't matter too much, except that I'm purposefully asking about mechanical toolkits for LM/GNG, where your first scenario doesn't demand any mechanical change really at all.

 

[mmadsen]

If you want mechanics for "low" magic, you can go a long, long way with very few of them. After all, if the party does not include spellcasters, does not run into spellcasters, and cannot buy magic items easily for a set number of gold pieces, the campaign world becomes "low" magic.

When characters cannot heal, the game becomes grim in a hurry.

If you want some magic, I recommend removing the spellcasting classes, but allowing character to "scribe scrolls" (which don't have to resemble scrolls at all) in place of preparing spells. Then each spell is an important and expensive resource, not something that can be prepared again tomorrow for free.

 

[der_kluge]

I'm not big on the whole GnG thing, but I'm a big advocate of "rare" magic.

To that end, however, I don't limit the PCs appreciably. But the environment just makes them more special in terms of their power.


I'm running the Wilderlands. Wizards are not all that common, and if you're 10th level, you're quite possibly the most badass dude in 100 square miles. My players understand that.

I'm also using my Artificer's Handbook rules for magic item creation. They engender a sense that, you just can't hole yourself and produce whatever - you have to have components to create them. IMC, magic items are for sale, but I dictate what they are, and how much they are. When my PCs come across someone selling magic items (they found a total of two people that sold them), I had a list of *what* they had.

Also, I think it's important to keep a close eye on gp value of magic items. I can remember in 2nd edition, even the lowliest rogue always having a ring of invisibility. That's a 25,000gp item. It's really, really powerful. So, don't let nostalgia get in the way of common sense. That's a hard lesson I've had to learn.


As for combat, if you really want GnG, I would highly recommend Torn Asunder's critical rules. You end up with stuff like missing limbs. It's wicked cool. It creates a dynamic that players aren't used to dealing with.

 

[Desdichado]

If you want mechanics for "low" magic, you can go a long, long way with very few of them. After all, if the party does not include spellcasters, does not run into spellcasters, and cannot buy magic items easily for a set number of gold pieces, the campaign world becomes "low" magic.

When characters cannot heal, the game becomes grim in a hurry.

If you want some magic, I recommend removing the spellcasting classes, but allowing character to "scribe scrolls" (which don't have to resemble scrolls at all) in place of preparing spells. Then each spell is an important and expensive resource, not something that can be prepared again tomorrow for free.

Actually, mmadsen, the Shadow Stalkers campaign model in d20 Past works almost exactly like that. Except you can't take a class that has access to scrolls and UMD until at least 3rd level.

 

[Aus_Snow]

True20, at the moment. Does the trick, quite well, and I love some of the settings that are "native to it", so to speak. Very flexible, and lower magic / higher lethality (kind of) by default.

I happen to like Mongoose's Conan OGL mechanics too. Some of them found their way into my d20 house rules, which might see play again someday.

Said house rules are a bit of a monstrosity (but nonetheless, a collective that functioned well in practise), so I won't go into them here and now.

Grim and gritty is pretty easy to achieve with a d20 base, as is "low magic" (of either kind). That's been my experience, anyway. A sensible and reasonable DM can readily adjust and adapt various parts of the system to compensate, IME, which puts to rest one of the more common complaints about GnG and/or low magic.

Legends of Sorcery is something else I would recommend, for those looking to scale their magic in d20 fantasy. Simple, effective and elegant.