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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 2980879" data-attributes="member: 18363">Sometimes the simple things can make the difference. What if the casters started with only 0 level spells and did not gain 1st level spells until 3rd level, etc until 9th level spells are gained at level 19? They would perhaps need something else to make up for it (a Lore like ability and perhaps a couple more skill points each - to fit their more scholarly role; I'd use a cloistered cleric (from UA) in this setup). Bards, Rangers, Paladins, etc would perhaps gain their highest level spells, but also greatly delayed. Their casting (in the case of the Ranger, etc) would even start a couple levels (at least) later. To this make it more difficult to make permanent magic items. Perhaps double the XP and GP costs. Non-permanent items could be made, but due to the higher level most will be much more expensive, and due to the limitations on Potions several useful spells will no longer be applicable for use as a potion. To this move the ability modifying spells, the raise dead spells, and the Protection from / Magic Circle Against / Holy Word / etc spells all up a couple levels. Combined with delayed casting (by two levels) many of these will not see oft play - if used at all. Protection from Evil, for instance, would not be accessible until nineth level after all these changes (moved up two levels, delayed spell level gain by two levels). Let the results of these cascade through the rule set and suddenly magic is far less common and far less useful. Recall the prices for hiring a mage to do some work / cast some spells. With the spells all moved up a couple levels and permanent effects doubled in cost, suddenly it is too expensive to even consider hiring a mage for most things. If you populate a town by the specifications in the DMG, I suggest making magic users far less common - at least half as common, perhaps only a quarter as common. After all this one should take the probable cultural effect this will have. If the world was once magical and now is not due to a magical cataclysm, then it is likely that the mythos will suggest that the magic users were responsible. Perhaps it was hubris on their part that resulted in the cataclysm, and the limitation is applied to divine casters as well in part as punishment to the mortal races for their former hubris. The divine casters are thus limited in what they can draw upon. Or perhaps the cataclysm changed - weakened - magic, and again it was the fault of the magic users. Magic users are thus likely viewed with far more suspition / dread / anger than typical in a core game. Most will likely try to hide behind Prestidigitation, using Slight of Hand to pretend their magic is mere stage craft - if for no other reason than to hide what they are and thus escape persecution. Slight of Hand and Perform should both be class skills for all arcane casters. Druids likely simply spend most of thier time away from civilization and so lack the need for such skills. Clerics may perhaps use a variant of Perform, but the populace likely know - and accept - that their power is from the gods and so can be trusted (to some extent, or at least moreso than arcane magic). Still, they may make a holy sign (cross themselves, whatever) when seeing magic, as if to ward it off somehow. Perhaps this has even become a divine tradition. Perhaps to balance the less martial cloistered cleric in this less magical setting Turning attempts can also be used to create a temporary Sanctuary that also blocks magic as by SR equal to the Cleric's class level and can shield himself and one other per class level - or he can place himself in the path of coming magic but cannot shield others within his bubble. This ability to perhaps shield against magic may perhaps make up for its multiple decreases in power. Arcane casters gain their two more skills and one or two more skill points - and likely need to make use of them to keep from finding prices doubled at inns - if a room is even available - and shops. Note that with reduced number of casters (especially of higher levels, considering population patterns) and increased price for permanent magic items such items should be quite rare. A +1 sword is likely in use by a notable lord, and a +2 sword is likely in use by the king or his heir. A +3 sword is likely in use by the king or kept in his vault - or is held in the regional major temple to a combat deity for use by their champions or those on quests for their deity. A +1 flaming mace or bow is likely a rare and powerful item known to legends and myths but not seen in most cities - even metropolises - unless held by a notable local and powerful lord - and then it may only be seen during combat or during special ceremonies. It may be best to consider the PCs wealth cut in half. Not because it is cut in half, but because magic items simply cost more. Perhaps other benefits might be gained to slightly make up for this - titles, lands, a ship, followers (paid by another or free gaining of the Leadership feat).</blockquote>

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