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<blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 1537170" data-attributes="member: 15999">Hmm, I disagree.&nbsp; I think I have seen fantasy movies where a great hero drops several foes with a single swing.&nbsp; That's Great Cleave.&nbsp; And I've certainly read novels where the hero puts all his strength into one mighty blow.&nbsp; That's Power Attack.But mechanical equivalency isn't the point.&nbsp; It's the feel that matters.&nbsp; A high-level D&amp;D fighter with no magical items could take on a hundred orcs and slay several dozen of them before falling, as Boromir did.&nbsp; A hero can be literally the strongest human alive, as Fezzik was.&nbsp; D&amp;D is generally quite a good game for replicating the feel of action movies and fantasy novels.&nbsp; The combat system makes lots of sense in that light - no lucky blow by a mook is going to bring down a main character such as Conan.The feel of magic, by contrast, isn't replicated well.&nbsp; This isn't necessarily about high magic or low magic - it's about predictable scientific safe magic versus unpredictable mystical scary magic.&nbsp; Some D&amp;D spells *have* really captured the feel of magic well by being just so weird and unpredictable.&nbsp; The Tome of Magic had some; There/Not There was a good one, as was Sollopsism (the one where you have to deliberately believe an illusion for it to be real for you).&nbsp; Trap the Soul is another (since how you cast it depends on who you're casting it on), and Wish also feels like magic.&nbsp; But Fireball feels like 20th-century weaponry, and not like magic at all.Some can be rectified with cosmetic changes.&nbsp; Fireball could be replaced by &quot;Ghost of Surtur,&quot; a flaming warrior that attacks everything within 20' and then vanishes.&nbsp; Magic missile could be replaced by slightly different versions for each caster: barbed chains bursting out of the caster's chest and raking the flesh of opponents for 1d6 each; ghostly hawks rending foes for d4+1 each; tiny orbs of annihilation striking targets for 1d8 each (Reflex save for half); or actual physical (metal) knives striking for 1d8 each (ranged touch attack).&nbsp; The sameness for the players, the rote repetition of seeing the same spells cast all the time for 20 years, that's one part of the problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Brother MacLaren, post: 1537170, member: 15999"] Hmm, I disagree. I think I have seen fantasy movies where a great hero drops several foes with a single swing. That's Great Cleave. And I've certainly read novels where the hero puts all his strength into one mighty blow. That's Power Attack. But mechanical equivalency isn't the point. It's the feel that matters. A high-level D&D fighter with no magical items could take on a hundred orcs and slay several dozen of them before falling, as Boromir did. A hero can be literally the strongest human alive, as Fezzik was. D&D is generally quite a good game for replicating the feel of action movies and fantasy novels. The combat system makes lots of sense in that light - no lucky blow by a mook is going to bring down a main character such as Conan. The feel of magic, by contrast, isn't replicated well. This isn't necessarily about high magic or low magic - it's about predictable scientific safe magic versus unpredictable mystical scary magic. Some D&D spells *have* really captured the feel of magic well by being just so weird and unpredictable. The Tome of Magic had some; There/Not There was a good one, as was Sollopsism (the one where you have to deliberately believe an illusion for it to be real for you). Trap the Soul is another (since how you cast it depends on who you're casting it on), and Wish also feels like magic. But Fireball feels like 20th-century weaponry, and not like magic at all. Some can be rectified with cosmetic changes. Fireball could be replaced by "Ghost of Surtur," a flaming warrior that attacks everything within 20' and then vanishes. Magic missile could be replaced by slightly different versions for each caster: barbed chains bursting out of the caster's chest and raking the flesh of opponents for 1d6 each; ghostly hawks rending foes for d4+1 each; tiny orbs of annihilation striking targets for 1d8 each (Reflex save for half); or actual physical (metal) knives striking for 1d8 each (ranged touch attack). The sameness for the players, the rote repetition of seeing the same spells cast all the time for 20 years, that's one part of the problem. [/QUOTE]

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