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<blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 1547342" data-attributes="member: 15999">This more or less nails it.&nbsp; Magic is, in the current system, limited in both flexibility (either prepared spells or spells known) and utilization (spells per day).&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because in the absence of limitations, MAGIC IS BETTER THAN MUNDANE OPTIONS.&nbsp; Attacking with True Strike is better than attacking without it.&nbsp; Magic Missile is usually better than shooting a bow.&nbsp; Spider Climb is better than the skill Climb.&nbsp; Detect Thoughts is usually better than Sense Motive.&nbsp; Cure Light Wounds is better than the Heal skill.&nbsp; That's why people bother to play casters.At higher levels, it is overwhelming.&nbsp; The only way for a non-spellcaster to not be completely helpless against magic-using foes is for him to have a good number of magic items to emulate magical ability (such as fly and see invisible).&nbsp; The PC environment (party system, deliberately facing risks, rarely bailing out of an adventure because the players want to have fun) gives a false sense of balance between magic and mundane by limiting the wizard's best tactics (hide in your tower and scry, use expendable hired muscle, choose the time and place, prepare, stack the odds in your favor, and retreat whenever things start to turn bad).&nbsp; Magic is very powerful, far more so than the ability to swing a sword.&nbsp; That's part of the point of this thread - how can magic be made interesting and flavorful and not &quot;just another tool&quot;?&nbsp; It's more powerful and so warrants a higher cost.&nbsp; It's not reasonable to impose equal costs on mundane actions as kamosa suggests.Having an XP, HP, ability, or sanity cost is a different way to balance it out - I'm not suggesting having both the current system and a cost-based system, although I like the way that Scribe Scroll allows you to surpass your limits at the cost of GP and XP.&nbsp; Using Scribe Scroll is not a step back in the process of obtaining power - it's an investment, like buying stocks or starting a business.&nbsp; A 5100 XP wizard with a wide assortment of scrolls is much more likely to succeed and survive and get to the next level than a 5200 XP wizard who can't bear the thought of parting with &quot;hard-earned&quot; XP.&nbsp; Nothing ventured, nothing gained - hoard your precious XP and you stand a slightly greater chance of not making it to the next level.Now, some mundane actions *do* impose ability penalties - barbarian rage, for example, and I'm surprised kamosa didn't think of that.&nbsp; And if when playing a fighter-type I had the option to spend 5 XP for a +1 bonus to hit or damage, I'd certainly use that from time to time.&nbsp; (Currently, the game I'm in uses Luck Points, which are a reward for success that you can then use to enhance your chance of success - just like I'm proposing to use XP.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Brother MacLaren, post: 1547342, member: 15999"] This more or less nails it. Magic is, in the current system, limited in both flexibility (either prepared spells or spells known) and utilization (spells per day). Why? Because in the absence of limitations, MAGIC IS BETTER THAN MUNDANE OPTIONS. Attacking with True Strike is better than attacking without it. Magic Missile is usually better than shooting a bow. Spider Climb is better than the skill Climb. Detect Thoughts is usually better than Sense Motive. Cure Light Wounds is better than the Heal skill. That's why people bother to play casters. At higher levels, it is overwhelming. The only way for a non-spellcaster to not be completely helpless against magic-using foes is for him to have a good number of magic items to emulate magical ability (such as fly and see invisible). The PC environment (party system, deliberately facing risks, rarely bailing out of an adventure because the players want to have fun) gives a false sense of balance between magic and mundane by limiting the wizard's best tactics (hide in your tower and scry, use expendable hired muscle, choose the time and place, prepare, stack the odds in your favor, and retreat whenever things start to turn bad). Magic is very powerful, far more so than the ability to swing a sword. That's part of the point of this thread - how can magic be made interesting and flavorful and not "just another tool"? It's more powerful and so warrants a higher cost. It's not reasonable to impose equal costs on mundane actions as kamosa suggests. Having an XP, HP, ability, or sanity cost is a [I]different [/I] way to balance it out - I'm not suggesting having both the current system and a cost-based system, although I like the way that Scribe Scroll allows you to surpass your limits at the cost of GP and XP. Using Scribe Scroll is not a step back in the process of obtaining power - it's an investment, like buying stocks or starting a business. A 5100 XP wizard with a wide assortment of scrolls is much more likely to succeed and survive and get to the next level than a 5200 XP wizard who can't bear the thought of parting with "hard-earned" XP. Nothing ventured, nothing gained - hoard your precious XP and you stand a slightly greater chance of not making it to the next level. Now, some mundane actions *do* impose ability penalties - barbarian rage, for example, and I'm surprised kamosa didn't think of that. And if when playing a fighter-type I had the option to spend 5 XP for a +1 bonus to hit or damage, I'd certainly use that from time to time. (Currently, the game I'm in uses Luck Points, which are a reward for success that you can then use to enhance your chance of success - just like I'm proposing to use XP.) [/QUOTE]

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