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<blockquote data-quote="kamosa" data-source="post: 1547931" data-attributes="member: 1037">I didn't add this to the list because it is a temp imbalance in scores and is restored to normal right after you stop raging.&nbsp; The types of penalties to stats, XP and HP are more permanent in game terms and tend to be treated more as penalties by the system than a barbarian rage.&nbsp; For similar reasons I didn't include charging, which also fades really quickly.I think you missed my point on that anyway.&nbsp; The point was that what you are saying is &quot;fun&quot; for the magic user would be seen as a real penalty to anyother class.&nbsp; I know the classes are different, no duh.&nbsp; But that doesn't mean that draining XP or HP is any more fun for the caster than it would be for the other classes.&nbsp; You had made the case that XP drains where fun and I was attempting to point out how unfun that would be if extended to other classes.And the point of all that was just to say what I don't like in different ways of balancing magic.&nbsp; Just my opinion... Must have struck a nerve. And your right barsoomcore,&nbsp; any game where my character died strictly because I used my class abilities wouldn't be my cup of tea.&nbsp; I prefer to have my characters die at that hands of competent enemies, not in some sort of stat drain suicide.&nbsp; Heck, maybe I would have been real happy, at least I'd get to roll up a different character that wasn't a mage.&nbsp; Going back to the original point, that doesn't map the fiction I've read at all.I also disagree that magic overpowers swords at high levels.&nbsp; At least in the games I've played in and GM'd the wizards never overpower the fighters at high levels.&nbsp; Most of the high level monsters have incredible magic resistance, really high save numbers and tons of hit points.&nbsp; However, almost nothing withstands a couple rounds of a high level fighter that has closed to base to base contact.&nbsp; There is no save vs taking damage from a sword, but almost every damage spell is greatly reduced by making a save.Maybe in an arena style death match using only class abilities the wizard beats the fighters, but in everyday games where you face monsters, not eachother, the fighters tend to do more than hold their own.&nbsp; By about 13 or 14 level, they pretty much do the combat part of the adventure while the wizards twiddle their thumbs and wish their spells did more damage and try to not get killed in one round by the BBEG that is designed to challenge the fighter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kamosa, post: 1547931, member: 1037"] I didn't add this to the list because it is a temp imbalance in scores and is restored to normal right after you stop raging. The types of penalties to stats, XP and HP are more permanent in game terms and tend to be treated more as penalties by the system than a barbarian rage. For similar reasons I didn't include charging, which also fades really quickly. I think you missed my point on that anyway. The point was that what you are saying is "fun" for the magic user would be seen as a real penalty to anyother class. I know the classes are different, no duh. But that doesn't mean that draining XP or HP is any more fun for the caster than it would be for the other classes. You had made the case that XP drains where fun and I was attempting to point out how unfun that would be if extended to other classes. And the point of all that was just to say what I don't like in different ways of balancing magic. Just my opinion... Must have struck a nerve. And your right barsoomcore, any game where my character died strictly because I used my class abilities wouldn't be my cup of tea. I prefer to have my characters die at that hands of competent enemies, not in some sort of stat drain suicide. Heck, maybe I would have been real happy, at least I'd get to roll up a different character that wasn't a mage. Going back to the original point, that doesn't map the fiction I've read at all. I also disagree that magic overpowers swords at high levels. At least in the games I've played in and GM'd the wizards never overpower the fighters at high levels. Most of the high level monsters have incredible magic resistance, really high save numbers and tons of hit points. However, almost nothing withstands a couple rounds of a high level fighter that has closed to base to base contact. There is no save vs taking damage from a sword, but almost every damage spell is greatly reduced by making a save. Maybe in an arena style death match using only class abilities the wizard beats the fighters, but in everyday games where you face monsters, not eachother, the fighters tend to do more than hold their own. By about 13 or 14 level, they pretty much do the combat part of the adventure while the wizards twiddle their thumbs and wish their spells did more damage and try to not get killed in one round by the BBEG that is designed to challenge the fighter. [/QUOTE]

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