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<blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 1548321" data-attributes="member: 15999">Er, no.&nbsp; I made the point that spending or investing XP could be an interesting option, and that an XP cost is not a &quot;penalty&quot; or &quot;punishment&quot; or a &quot;drain.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's an investment.&nbsp; Spend some XP to overcome the challenge and thereby earn more XP than if you had failed to overcome the challenge.&nbsp; And, if when playing another class I had the spellcaster's astounding ability to trade GP and XP for significant increases in power (that is, create magic items), I would certainly do it.&nbsp; Maybe you wouldn't.&nbsp; Now, if a fighter-type had to spend XP to use a charged or limited-use magic item, more or less equivalent to the Scribe Scroll XP cost, I think many players would still find that worth doing as the situation demanded.&nbsp; Remember, spending XP can't ever drop you down a level, so this never actually makes you weaker (as opposed to level drains, which you seem to have confused XP investment with).Or, to look at other types of damage, I rather like the idea of having some magic items with drawbacks.&nbsp; Viscious weapons that deal damage to the user; a cloak of protection that can give an extra boost on saves at the expense of Dex.&nbsp; Items where players have to make a tactical decision to use them rather than it being the automatic best choice in every case.Two things.&nbsp; First, a high-level fighter in a D&amp;D game is only matched with the wizard because of his magic items.&nbsp; The game assumes the fighter will have magic items and access to magical healing.&nbsp; So saying &quot;Magic is better than mundane options&quot; doesn't mean &quot;wizards are better than fighters.&quot;&nbsp; Second, the PC environment is not the same as the world at large.&nbsp; Most NPCs don't actively seek out tough challenges.&nbsp; NPC wizards can bail on a tough encounter, whereas PCs are very reluctant to bail because a) their fellows may not be able to escape as easily and b) that's the adventure the DM has planned.&nbsp; PCs don't rely on hired help much because the players like being the ones who do stuff.&nbsp; Most NPCs don't face multiple encounters in one day, and they spend more time in their own strongholds than do PCs.&nbsp; In the world at large - the courts and the kingdoms - magic is superior.&nbsp; A tribe of goblins led by a 7th-level cleric will destroy the tribe led by a 7th-level rogue.&nbsp; A garrison of 1st-level wizards can defend a keep better than 1st-level fighters (True Strike and heavy crossbow, or Magic Missile).&nbsp; Wizards can scry-buff-teleport or fly-ImpInv-fireball.&nbsp; Against either of these, non-casters without magical resources are helpless.&nbsp; Magic can slaughter the mightiest of warriors with no chance for them to fight back.&nbsp; (I was once in a game where the PCs used magic to slaughter a mundane marauding army... it was sickening, and I almost defected to the bad guys' side)D&amp;D adventures are specifically designed to reduce the power of spells in certain circumstances (foes with SR, multiple encounters per day), but they do not reflect the experience of most of those in the game world.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Brother MacLaren, post: 1548321, member: 15999"] Er, no. I made the point that spending or investing XP could be an interesting option, and that an XP cost is not a "penalty" or "punishment" or a "drain." It's an investment. Spend some XP to overcome the challenge and thereby earn more XP than if you had failed to overcome the challenge. And, if when playing another class I had the spellcaster's astounding ability to trade GP and XP for significant increases in power (that is, create magic items), I would certainly do it. Maybe you wouldn't. Now, if a fighter-type had to spend XP to [I]use[/I] a charged or limited-use magic item, more or less equivalent to the Scribe Scroll XP cost, I think many players would still find that worth doing as the situation demanded. Remember, spending XP can't ever drop you down a level, so this never actually makes you weaker (as opposed to level drains, which you seem to have confused XP investment with). Or, to look at other types of damage, I rather like the idea of having some magic items with drawbacks. Viscious weapons that deal damage to the user; a cloak of protection that can give an extra boost on saves at the expense of Dex. Items where players have to make a tactical decision to use them rather than it being the automatic best choice in every case. Two things. First, a high-level fighter in a D&D game is only matched with the wizard because of his magic items. The game assumes the fighter will have magic items and access to magical healing. So saying "Magic is better than mundane options" doesn't mean "wizards are better than fighters." Second, the PC environment is not the same as the world at large. Most NPCs don't actively seek out tough challenges. NPC wizards can bail on a tough encounter, whereas PCs are very reluctant to bail because a) their fellows may not be able to escape as easily and b) that's the adventure the DM has planned. PCs don't rely on hired help much because the players like being the ones who do stuff. Most NPCs don't face multiple encounters in one day, and they spend more time in their own strongholds than do PCs. In the world at large - the courts and the kingdoms - magic is superior. A tribe of goblins led by a 7th-level cleric will destroy the tribe led by a 7th-level rogue. A garrison of 1st-level wizards can defend a keep better than 1st-level fighters (True Strike and heavy crossbow, or Magic Missile). Wizards can scry-buff-teleport or fly-ImpInv-fireball. Against either of these, non-casters without magical resources are helpless. Magic can slaughter the mightiest of warriors with no chance for them to fight back. (I was once in a game where the PCs used magic to slaughter a mundane marauding army... it was sickening, and I almost defected to the bad guys' side) D&D adventures are specifically designed to reduce the power of spells in certain circumstances (foes with SR, multiple encounters per day), but they do not reflect the experience of most of those in the game world. [/QUOTE]

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