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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7841249" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'll use the OED. It gives me the following relevant options:* Of a word: denoting an idea, quality, or state rather than a concrete object . . . Opposed to concrete.* Existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence; conceptual. Frequently opposed to concrete.* Considered or understood without reference to particular instances or concrete examples; representing the intrinsic, general properties of something in isolation from the peculiar properties of any specific instance or example;* Not restricted to particular instances or concerned with the details of specific examples; dealing with or describing things at a general level, or in terms of concepts which denote general properties; theoretical.* An abstract term or concept; an abstraction . . . Frequently opposed to concrete.Nothing there is at odds with my earlier post. The notion of hit points as durability is an abstract notion of hit points, because durability is an asbtract concept, that does not make reference to particular instances or concrete examples (such as bone strength, soft tissue flexibility, cell rupture and all the other concrete biological phenomena that are actually in play when a person is hurt or threatened with hurt).There's no meaning of abstract that makes Gygax's account of hp, or [USER=996]@Tony Vargas[/USER]'s account of hp, abstract but makes a durability account not abstract. If someone was to assert that, in D&D, humans have an (imaginary) concrete property of structural resilience and that hp measure that property, maybe that would count as a non-abstract account of hp. There are some posters on these forums who assert that, or something like it (eg [USER=6775031]@Saelorn[/USER]), but if [USER=7016641]@Arch-Fiend[/USER] has asserted that then I didn't pick it up.Even in RQ, where hp are "meat", hp are still abstract because they are used to measure everything from concussion-causing blows to the head to maiming and decapitating blows to limbs. At the moment the only RPG I can think of that uses a hp-type mechanism but has them as largely non-abstract is Rolemaster, where concussion hits measure bruising, blood loss and associated pain. In that system the things that hp measure in RQ and that they would measure on a durability account are handled via specific condition infliction, mediated mechanically via critical charts.</blockquote>

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