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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6068411" data-attributes="member: 92511">I get the whole rarity of magic items thing. That a PC doesn't need to gain magic items to increase in power. I get it. I think it's great! And heartily agree that a PC should increase in abilities and effectiveness as they gain levels. That doesn't mean they [should] have a carte blanche to defeat everything all of the time. And as a pinnacle kind of creature/encounter for the game which bares its very name, I'm comfortable asserting that the dragon should be one of those things.But to say the game is intended to be played "without requiring magic" is a mistaken perception...at least, I very much hope it is. And if it's not, then it is a sorely mistaken premise as a design goal for Dungeons & Dragons.I do not think it is contradictory to say, "Magic items [or magic-users] are rare, even incredibly so." and say, "But for a dragon you're gonna need [at least] one." There should be some things that you just can't beat. There needs to be that ephemeral...something (whatever it is, I'm not really certain. I just know that it's something I think of as integral to D&D) in the game that makes you think, as a player and a character, "OH $#!T We can't beat this! What can we do?" As you gain levels and experience, yes, you should get more powerful. Your power and experience will inform you that "We need to do/go/get X if we hope to defeat this thing!" or give you the ability to say [and likely survive], "I'll hold it off for the 10 rounds you need to complete the ritual!"Then, there is the fact that D&D has mages and clerics and endless debates of casting systems. It has scrolls and potions and magic wands. It has ghosts and elves and, yes, dragons. Why anyone would play a game without magic and still think it can be called D&D simply does not register for me.Another of those fundamental differences in POV, I suppose.</blockquote>

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