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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Souljourner" data-source="post: 809452" data-attributes="member: 1622">Thanks.  Interesting.. I would guess that since the ECL is +3, the final adjustment would be +9 (6 for HD and 3 of level adjustment).   Hrm.... let's try an acid test...  Were-tiger Fighter 1  vs. barbarian 10.  (assume 16 str, 14 con in base form)barbarian:  BAB +10, melee attack bonus +15 (raging),  hp 9d12+12 (max at 1st)+40 =  111 hp, uncanny dodge x2Were-tiger: BAB +5,  melee attack bonus +14, hp 12 + 6d8 + 30 = 70hp, scent, pounce, improved grab (although only on creatures size small or smaller).Overall, it seems clear the barbarian is far superior. The animal hitdice and constitution modifer that only applies to those hit dice really make this a crappy template.  The whole "start with ECL = #of hitdice" is crap, in my opinion, especially when you're starting with animal hit dice.  They shouldn't count as full level modifiers, since they're strictly inferior even to warrior levels.  Let's try ECL +7, just for sheets and giggles.human 8th level barbarian vs human weretiger fighter 1Barb: BAB +8, melee AB +13 (when raging), hp 12 + 7d12 + 32 (when raging) = 90 hitpointsWeretiger is as above.  Now this seems a lot more balanced.  Weretiger  gets a few cool abilities, and a lot of damage, but at the expense of 3 BAB (though the strength more than overcomes that, it's still the loss of three levels until multiple attacks are possible), 20 hitpoints, uncanny dodge x2, and 3 feats.That sounds much more balanced.So here's my suggestion, animal hitdice should count for 3/4 of an ECL, so their ECL is equal to their BAB.  They're just too crappy otherwise.  That would make the Lycanthrope 4 (for hitdice) +3 for level adjustment.  Which seems pretty fair, given my acid tests here.-The Souljourner</blockquote>

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