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<blockquote data-quote="Shayuri" data-source="post: 6124609" data-attributes="member: 4936"><p>Preface, and a note on stats:</p><p></p><p>The way I build most super characters is to go by concept first, then pick them over for optimization on a second and third pass. A lot of the things you're suggesting fit neatly into that category, for which I thank you. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>I'll add that the original concept was for a kind of charming thief as well, but I can scale that back so that I don't step on Siren's toes, and focus on Deception, which is needed for some of her abilities to work well.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em> Not sure how you got a 50' range, as this has nothing to alter it's range, and the standard for a rank 10 ranged attack should be 250 short, 500 medium (-2 atk), 1000 Long (-5 atk)</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>ALSO, this attack is below your PL cap, I'd suggest upping it to cap with another rank of Accurate.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Yeah, the range was wrong. I wasn't really thinking about it; it was a placeholder. Originally the beam attack had some Increased Range, but I removed that, thinking it could be an alternate effect later on if I wanted to make a sniper sort of beam. A quick pulse, rather than an extended duration beam (ie - not multiattack). I also hadn't done PL-matching stuff...you'll note her defenses are a bit off too.</p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"></span></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>You have listed +4 awe to your will but above you only have 3 awe. I'm assuming stat changed and just forgot to change the save. </em></span></p><p></p><p>Oops, yep. That's the case with quite a few of her attributes, in fact. My first rough had even higher ones, that I reduced. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Missed that.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Remember that with the way Impervious is halved the impervious 5 only makes you immune to rank 3 or lower damage, and with a +9 toughness save you have a 60% or better chance of making the save against anything it would protect you from anyways. Is that worth 5 points to you?</em></span></p><p></p><p>Maybe. I'll think about it.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>You aren't defense capped in anything - usually fort/will's ok to leave under cap, but even with a sneaky illusionist I'd suggest getting your dodge/toughness up a bit more. Maybe lower/drop the impervious on your toughness shield and just up the toughness to 11? Also, Parry +2 could be dangerous. If you're going to ignore parry anyways, i'd suggest not putting any base points into it. OR...</em></span></p><p></p><p>Well, I see her being harder to hit than being able to soak damage. That is also why the build features the much-maligned defensive roll. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> The TK defense has gone through several iterations. The first draft only worked on physical attacks...but then I decided that since she can mess with incoming electromagnetic energy too, that was really unnecessary. So at this point it's really a telekinetic/photokinetic defense. The impervious was really just something I put on there because I had points in the array unspent, but I couldn't boost the toughness bonus anymore without going over PL. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>How's this sound: Instead of Impervious 5, maybe Toughness+7/Parry+3 - doesn't max your parry, but the shield helps at least somewhat 'deflect' close attacks, and it gives you capped dodge/toughness?</em></span></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I was, and am, playing with options like that, and will probably go with that. Though I kind of like the flavor of defensive roll, for reasons I'll go into shortly.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>A thief without sleight of hand? FOR SHAME!! </em></span></p><p></p><p>Hah! I keep forgetting that's still a skill in M&M. I think even on characters I take it with, I've used it maybe once...ever. However, I never got to play a thief in a game where I'm actually allowed to steal either. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Athletics can be used untrained so there's not much use putting a single point into it.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I haven't gone over skills in detail yet.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>I think taking all three Interaction skills (Deception, Intimidation, AND Persuasion) Is spreading it around a bit too much. Especially when you take into account that we WILL be on a team that has specialists in some of those fields, and at these ranks you'll be second fiddle for each of them..</em> </span></p><p></p><p>Yar, I'm currently focusing on Deception, with some Persuasion. I bought Intimidation mostly for the purposes of scaring people with scary illusions. But that can be your job. I'll focus on not being seen in the first place.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Defensive roll sucks, please don't use it!!!! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></em></span></p><p></p><p>lol...I understand why you'd say that. +1 toughness for 1pp but it has restrictions that Protection doesn't, yet costs the same! Why?! Well, concept aside, it's because I envision at some point I'll lose access to my powers.</p><p></p><p>...of course, without powers, she's blind, and it wouldn't work then.</p><p></p><p>...yeah, okay, I'll fix that. (^_^) (in my defense, she wasn't blind in the first rough <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />)</p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"></span></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Without Area on your invisibility, I presume selective is there so you can pick who sees you? Not sure if that works, but we'll see what WD says.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Selective means she can decide which part of her bod to turn invisible. Hand only? Head? Just the legs? It's a minor, possibly silly thing, but I like it.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Selective isn't a PF, it's a +1/rank modifier, which would raise your cost to 13 (12 if you drop the other PF).</em></span></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Also, Morph 2 only allows you to assume a 'narrow group of forms such as people roughly your size and gender', you need rank 3 for 'any humanoid'</em></span></p><p></p><p>Selective ATTACK is +1/rank. For powers that are not attacks, it is a feat.</p><p></p><p>Good point about Morph. It was a late addition, and I hadn't gone over it in detail. I'll have to work on that. Maybe make it the 'main' power in the array, and buff out Invis somehow.</p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: #A9A9A9">increasing Area for Illusion isn't a PF, it's 1/rank. Your Illusion should be 4/rank (2 visual 1 auditory, 1 area), costing 32pp at rank 8, not sure where you got the 33.</span></em></p><p></p><p>Yarg, ok. The Illusion power has gone through iterations, and I keep getting it mixed up with previous editions. I'll give it another pass. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em> Honestly, the Area progression on Illusion is only worth it if you have ranks less than or equal to the base cost of the illusion (so 3 ranks for a 3/rank visual/auditory) because all it does is add an extra 'effective' rank for figuring out your size. Since you're taking more ranks, I would highly suggest just dropping the area bonus and adding a couple more ranks.. for 30pp you could make it rank 10 - as big as Sirens.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Which is honestly quite a bit bigger than I want. I may just drop the area thing. I mostly had it so I could create multiple illusions in a space, like two guards instead of one...but with Sustained duration I can create more than one illusion and sustain them at a time, as long as I only control one's movements.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Your damage effect looks good. Cost would only be 37, less than the primary total.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Yeah, point totals fluxing so much, I haven't nipped and tucked to make sure everything's completely snug.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>For your affliction, the 'limited to vision' can be done better by making it "Sense-dependant: Vision" which basically requires anyone being affected to be able to see you, and they get a dodge resist. No need to make up a limit when the appropriate one already exists. This would not affect the cost</em></span>.</p><p></p><p>Ugh, I -HATE- Sense Dependant though! It's so PUNITIVE. Giving everyone TWO resistance checks! I have yet to encounter a situation where that doesn't totally hobble a power! "Failed one? Hey, roll again! yay, you made it this time!"</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Overall, the power needs to be repriced. Your most expensive power is currently 40 +2 AP's = 42. That's whether you change Illusion to the rank 10 or not</em>.</span></p><p></p><p>Hm, did I have that wrong? I'll take a look. </p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Subtle on enhanced strength.. interesting..</em> </span></p><p></p><p>When I made it Sustained, it acquired the same 'tell' that other powers get, as I understand it. I didn't want there to be an visual effect associated with her enhancing her abilities with TK.</p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"></span></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>Everything else works fine, but keep in mind that since none of these are dynamic you can only use one a turn, so any time you use any of your movement modes, TK, or enhanced strength you'll essentially be loosing 5 Toughness. I personally love playing characters like that, so I'm not criticizing, just making sure it's a known factor. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></em></span></p><p></p><p>That was another reason I wanted some Defensive Roll...some source of defense that wasn't power-based.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #A9A9A9"><em>I think your movement modes are mispriced.. Super Movements are 2/rank, so if you have wallcrawling 2(Normal speed) and safe fall 1, that would be 6p + 3 each for leap and speed = 12pp.</em></span></p><p></p><p>Hehe, that's what I get for using an old sheet...it inherits old mistakes. Thanks for the help, buddy. I'll give your revisions a look and will probably crib off of it.</p><p></p><p>You saved me a ton of work. Gratzi!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shayuri, post: 6124609, member: 4936"] Preface, and a note on stats: The way I build most super characters is to go by concept first, then pick them over for optimization on a second and third pass. A lot of the things you're suggesting fit neatly into that category, for which I thank you. :) I'll add that the original concept was for a kind of charming thief as well, but I can scale that back so that I don't step on Siren's toes, and focus on Deception, which is needed for some of her abilities to work well. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I] Not sure how you got a 50' range, as this has nothing to alter it's range, and the standard for a rank 10 ranged attack should be 250 short, 500 medium (-2 atk), 1000 Long (-5 atk) ALSO, this attack is below your PL cap, I'd suggest upping it to cap with another rank of Accurate.[/I][/COLOR] Yeah, the range was wrong. I wasn't really thinking about it; it was a placeholder. Originally the beam attack had some Increased Range, but I removed that, thinking it could be an alternate effect later on if I wanted to make a sniper sort of beam. A quick pulse, rather than an extended duration beam (ie - not multiattack). I also hadn't done PL-matching stuff...you'll note her defenses are a bit off too. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"] [I]You have listed +4 awe to your will but above you only have 3 awe. I'm assuming stat changed and just forgot to change the save. [/I][/COLOR] Oops, yep. That's the case with quite a few of her attributes, in fact. My first rough had even higher ones, that I reduced. :) Missed that. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Remember that with the way Impervious is halved the impervious 5 only makes you immune to rank 3 or lower damage, and with a +9 toughness save you have a 60% or better chance of making the save against anything it would protect you from anyways. Is that worth 5 points to you?[/I][/COLOR] Maybe. I'll think about it. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]You aren't defense capped in anything - usually fort/will's ok to leave under cap, but even with a sneaky illusionist I'd suggest getting your dodge/toughness up a bit more. Maybe lower/drop the impervious on your toughness shield and just up the toughness to 11? Also, Parry +2 could be dangerous. If you're going to ignore parry anyways, i'd suggest not putting any base points into it. OR...[/I][/COLOR] Well, I see her being harder to hit than being able to soak damage. That is also why the build features the much-maligned defensive roll. :) The TK defense has gone through several iterations. The first draft only worked on physical attacks...but then I decided that since she can mess with incoming electromagnetic energy too, that was really unnecessary. So at this point it's really a telekinetic/photokinetic defense. The impervious was really just something I put on there because I had points in the array unspent, but I couldn't boost the toughness bonus anymore without going over PL. :) [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]How's this sound: Instead of Impervious 5, maybe Toughness+7/Parry+3 - doesn't max your parry, but the shield helps at least somewhat 'deflect' close attacks, and it gives you capped dodge/toughness?[/I][/COLOR] Yeah, I was, and am, playing with options like that, and will probably go with that. Though I kind of like the flavor of defensive roll, for reasons I'll go into shortly. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]A thief without sleight of hand? FOR SHAME!! [/I][/COLOR] Hah! I keep forgetting that's still a skill in M&M. I think even on characters I take it with, I've used it maybe once...ever. However, I never got to play a thief in a game where I'm actually allowed to steal either. :) [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Athletics can be used untrained so there's not much use putting a single point into it.[/I][/COLOR] Yeah, I haven't gone over skills in detail yet. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]I think taking all three Interaction skills (Deception, Intimidation, AND Persuasion) Is spreading it around a bit too much. Especially when you take into account that we WILL be on a team that has specialists in some of those fields, and at these ranks you'll be second fiddle for each of them..[/I] [/COLOR] Yar, I'm currently focusing on Deception, with some Persuasion. I bought Intimidation mostly for the purposes of scaring people with scary illusions. But that can be your job. I'll focus on not being seen in the first place. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Defensive roll sucks, please don't use it!!!! :P[/I][/COLOR] lol...I understand why you'd say that. +1 toughness for 1pp but it has restrictions that Protection doesn't, yet costs the same! Why?! Well, concept aside, it's because I envision at some point I'll lose access to my powers. ...of course, without powers, she's blind, and it wouldn't work then. ...yeah, okay, I'll fix that. (^_^) (in my defense, she wasn't blind in the first rough :)) [COLOR="#A9A9A9"] [I]Without Area on your invisibility, I presume selective is there so you can pick who sees you? Not sure if that works, but we'll see what WD says.[/I][/COLOR] Selective means she can decide which part of her bod to turn invisible. Hand only? Head? Just the legs? It's a minor, possibly silly thing, but I like it. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Selective isn't a PF, it's a +1/rank modifier, which would raise your cost to 13 (12 if you drop the other PF). Also, Morph 2 only allows you to assume a 'narrow group of forms such as people roughly your size and gender', you need rank 3 for 'any humanoid'[/I][/COLOR] Selective ATTACK is +1/rank. For powers that are not attacks, it is a feat. Good point about Morph. It was a late addition, and I hadn't gone over it in detail. I'll have to work on that. Maybe make it the 'main' power in the array, and buff out Invis somehow. [I][COLOR="#A9A9A9"]increasing Area for Illusion isn't a PF, it's 1/rank. Your Illusion should be 4/rank (2 visual 1 auditory, 1 area), costing 32pp at rank 8, not sure where you got the 33.[/COLOR][/I] Yarg, ok. The Illusion power has gone through iterations, and I keep getting it mixed up with previous editions. I'll give it another pass. :) [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I] Honestly, the Area progression on Illusion is only worth it if you have ranks less than or equal to the base cost of the illusion (so 3 ranks for a 3/rank visual/auditory) because all it does is add an extra 'effective' rank for figuring out your size. Since you're taking more ranks, I would highly suggest just dropping the area bonus and adding a couple more ranks.. for 30pp you could make it rank 10 - as big as Sirens.[/I][/COLOR] Which is honestly quite a bit bigger than I want. I may just drop the area thing. I mostly had it so I could create multiple illusions in a space, like two guards instead of one...but with Sustained duration I can create more than one illusion and sustain them at a time, as long as I only control one's movements. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Your damage effect looks good. Cost would only be 37, less than the primary total.[/I][/COLOR] Yeah, point totals fluxing so much, I haven't nipped and tucked to make sure everything's completely snug. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]For your affliction, the 'limited to vision' can be done better by making it "Sense-dependant: Vision" which basically requires anyone being affected to be able to see you, and they get a dodge resist. No need to make up a limit when the appropriate one already exists. This would not affect the cost[/I][/COLOR]. Ugh, I -HATE- Sense Dependant though! It's so PUNITIVE. Giving everyone TWO resistance checks! I have yet to encounter a situation where that doesn't totally hobble a power! "Failed one? Hey, roll again! yay, you made it this time!" [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Overall, the power needs to be repriced. Your most expensive power is currently 40 +2 AP's = 42. That's whether you change Illusion to the rank 10 or not[/I].[/COLOR] Hm, did I have that wrong? I'll take a look. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]Subtle on enhanced strength.. interesting..[/I] [/COLOR] When I made it Sustained, it acquired the same 'tell' that other powers get, as I understand it. I didn't want there to be an visual effect associated with her enhancing her abilities with TK. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"] [I]Everything else works fine, but keep in mind that since none of these are dynamic you can only use one a turn, so any time you use any of your movement modes, TK, or enhanced strength you'll essentially be loosing 5 Toughness. I personally love playing characters like that, so I'm not criticizing, just making sure it's a known factor. :)[/I][/COLOR] That was another reason I wanted some Defensive Roll...some source of defense that wasn't power-based. [COLOR="#A9A9A9"][I]I think your movement modes are mispriced.. Super Movements are 2/rank, so if you have wallcrawling 2(Normal speed) and safe fall 1, that would be 6p + 3 each for leap and speed = 12pp.[/I][/COLOR] Hehe, that's what I get for using an old sheet...it inherits old mistakes. Thanks for the help, buddy. I'll give your revisions a look and will probably crib off of it. You saved me a ton of work. Gratzi! [/QUOTE]
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