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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shalimar" data-source="post: 1752811" data-attributes="member: 9600">Which version of the rules were you using?  The 2nd printing rulebook with the errata put in, or the 1 printing version? A brick is a brick, if they spend all their points on getting good at smashing things, then they are going to be good at smashing things and taking damage.  The only thing a brick can take a brick head on is another brick.  Other character types have to play to the Bricks weakness, or any other type of character's weakness for that matter.  Bricks are great at soaking up damage, either with protection or super-con.  But that doesn't mean much,  what good is his protection when you hit him with a mental blast?  How about when you hit him with mind control, or Stun, or illusion.  Not saying you in particular, but a lot of new players get fixated on damage save and never think about the fact that a character has 3 other saves, 2 of which are almost definitely a lot lower, and if they spend the points on amazing save for all 4 saves, thats 40 pps they are not using elsewhere.  Dazzle the brick and he isn't hitting anything, Paralyze him, heck, use Telekinesis to lift him off the ground and watch him swing his arms impotently. Mutants and Masterminds is about thinking outside the box.  The Extra Effort rules are great for heros having to improvise.  Can't hit the speedster with your energy blast?  Extra Effort to send off so many blasts that he can't possibly dodge (area), or in Cyclone's case from your game, Use extra effort to add the mental extra to one of your blasts, saying that your adjusting your blaster to excite the pain centers of the guy's brain. Another thing that makes me curious about what you said.  Amazing Save Damage is equivalent to Protection, with an extra that you don't have to roll if the attack is weaker then your ranks in amazing save.  Lets go through an example: Mister Blasto Has energy Blast +10 and the power attack feat; he Hits Mr. Forcefield, and Mr. Amazing save with a +15L energy Blast, lets see what happens: Mr. Forcefield has Protection 10, he needs to save vs DC 20 Lethal Damage30(15+15)-10(protection)= DC 20 Save, needs to roll a 20 to not be hurt Mr. Amazing Save has amazing save Damage +10, he needs to save vs DC 30, but he gets a +10 bonus to his roll.DC 30, with a +10 on the roll, needs to roll a 20 to not be hurt Assuming equal Con Bonuses, neither character is better off in this situation.  Against mooks, protection is better, but again, it costs more then amazing save damage, so it balances out since its basically paying powerpoints to never bomb a save against low powered attacks, regular amazing save still suffers that risk. The last thing to mention is that the arch type characters are really put together to be weaker then they should be, they can moe down mooks but against equal powered and higher powered foes they fall apart.</blockquote>

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