[M&M] Hard to Resist Feat - Criticize, Please

[Mark Chance]

Edit: I removed my original post about Penetrating Attack in the errata. Figured that one with some help. A bit further down, I toss out an idea for a new feat: Hard to Resist. For those of you who don't like to scroll, click here.

Criticisms? Adulation?

 

[DanMcS]

It's still useful for really expensive powers- a 2 point feat gets you the equivalent of 2 ranks for the power.

It's a neat idea, but badly implemented. I'd probably say allow it to treat 2 points of Protection as 2 points of Amazing Save: Damage. I've also seen people do it that it turns all ranks of protection into amazing save. That way an attack +8 with Penetrating Attack can force a save on a guy with protection +10, doesn't exceed the PL cap, and makes it a good specialized use of a feat.

 

[whydirt]

My advice is to allow the pre-errata version, but only allow it to be taken once per power.

 

[Petrosian]

the pre-erratta version was simply "hey, i get to ignore the power limits" and was bad.

the new version creates a power that beats protection as cheaply or cheaper than the main attack power does. thats not bad and, last time i checked, being limited to the same damage cap everyone else in your party is was not called useless, but often is called balanced.

YMMV.

i have also seen house rules which let penetrating not affect the Dc at all but counters the "bounce" aspect of protection so it would always force a damage save even if weaker than the prot.

 

[Mark Chance]

Edit: Moved feat to top of this post for easier reference.

Hard to Resist
Your power is harder to resist than would be expected.
Benefit: Choose one power. The save DC of this power is increased by +2.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, but each time it must be applied to a different power.

------

Aha! Now I get it! It was staring me right in the face. Consider:

Possession +10 (cost 30 pp) against Mental Protection +10. Target makes a Will save against DC 10 since Mental Protection reduces Possession to +0 ranks.

Possession (with Penetrating Attack) +8 (cost 26 pp) against Mental Protection +10. Target makes Will save against DC 10 since Mental Protection +10 is reduced to +8 by Penetrating Attack.

The similiarity: Will save DCs do not change.

The difference: Possession +8 would not affect Mental Protection +10 at all. For 26 pp, the hero gets 30 pp worth of net effect.

Now, with all that figured out, what would be wrong with this sort of feat?:

 

[DanMcS]

Now, with all that figured out, what would be wrong with this sort of feat?:

Hard to Resist
Your power is harder to resist than would be expected.
Benefit: Choose one power. The save DC of this power is increased by +2.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, but each time it must be applied to a different power.

Um, that's nearly the same effect. One reduces their save bonus, the other adds to the DC. As long as you don't exceed the power level cap, it doesn't really matter how you word it.

I think the subtle difference here is that penetrating attack, which reduces their save, doesn't hurt people with +0 saves already, and "hard to resist" would. But this is making my head hurt, and it's sunny out, so I'm going swimming.

 

[Mark Chance]

Um, that's nearly the same effect.

Not quite. Hard to Resist would have no effect on Protection-like powers. A Hard to Resist Energy Blast +10 could not hurt someone with Protection +11.

As long as you don't exceed the power level cap, it doesn't really matter how you word it.

Feats plus powers can exceed power level cap. That is the default rule. The errata on Penetrating Attack is an exception to the rule. Assume that Hard to Resist follows the default rule. Any immediate problems spring to mind? If so, is it because +2 DC is too much? How about +1 DC?

But this is making my head hurt, and it's sunny out, so I'm going swimming.

Have fun!

 

[Petrosian]

As long as it is limited to once per power, i think its fine. The defensive equivalents are toughness, iron will etc which all can raise the saves about the cap by 2 as well.

i doubt it would be a problem in a campaign.

Frankly, i thought the only change penetrating needed from the original version was to add "once per power" to it.

if concerned about balance, you could add a special circumstance, like already exists in power stunt, and only have this apply then.