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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gaiden" data-source="post: 661778" data-attributes="member: 103">Balance:This character will be at a great disadvantage.  He will have a total of at least -6 to hit with every attack (-2 from monkey grip, -4 from TWF).  Moreover, despite his damage per hit far surpassing most melee warrior types, his hit rate will be so low that his actual average damage will be much lower than an average combatant of his level.  This will most likely balance itself out at later levels *against the lower ACed foes* but he will still have trouble hitting anything with above average AC.Look at the actual numbers:I presume he will combine Fighter with Barbarian and shoot towards Frenzied Berserker.  Even with +1/level BAB, and the boosts from Rage and Frenzy, he still has only accounted for that penalty to hit by +5 still putting him at a disadvantage.+1 BAB/level+4 str (assume 18)+2 (rage)+3 (frenzy)-4 (TWF)-2 (MG)At early levels, with only the rage to add to the "to hit" total he is netting only his BAB to hit, which is really low for a warrior type.  The frenzy helps a bit but still does not make him the melee death machine that would be common at his level.His damage output will be astronomicalDamage per hit:mainhand:1d12+4 (str)+2 (rage)+3 (frenzy)offhand:1d12+2 (str)+1 (rage)+1 (frenzy)With a x3 crit, when he does hit, it is really going to hit.  However, I would seriously consider the drawbacks to dual weilding great axes.  One of the most powerful abilities of the frenzied berserker is the fact that his power attack is so much more powerful than normal.  When he deducts points from his "to hit" total he can then apply a greater amount towards his damage.  For this to be useful, one needs a high "to hit" total.  The extra attack bonus from frenzy has great synergy with this ability.  However, if that is being used to already compensate for a previous weakness, the character will be much less useful.  If you go through the damage calculations at any level you would see that the average damage would be much, MUCH, higher if he just dualweilded a double weapon or a dwarven axe.  When you think about it, he has to spend the exact same number of feats anyway, and with a double weapon he only has a -2 total penaly and with the dual weilded dwarven axes he only has a -4 total penalty.In fact, if it were me, I would think dual weilding dwarven axes made alot more sense for a dwarven battlerager.  However, the argument from above still applies.  It is better to limit the penalties to hit as power attacking is so effective.Consider this simple comparisonLets say the total to hit is +20, +14 while dual wielding great axes, +16 while dual wielding dwarven axes, +18 while TWFing normally.  And let's assume that the damage bonus is normally +10+20 PAing for 6+18 PAing for 4+16 PAing for 2+14 PAing for 0When PA is 1 for 1+20 deals 1d12+20, Avg = 26.5+18 deals 1d8+14+1d6+9 = 31+16 deals 1d10+12+1d10+7 = 30+14 deals 1d12+10+1d12+5 = 28Now multiply those averages by the percent hit rateLet's assume AC 28 (I am assuming this character is around 10th level for which an AC 28 opponent is not too unreasonable).+20 = .65 --> yeilds 17.225+18 = .55 --> yeilds 17.05+16 = .45 --> yeilds 13.5+14 = .35 --> yeilds 9.8I know this is oversimplified.  I did not include iterive attacks, anything beyond masterwork weapons, feats, buffing spells, or ability increases.  Also, I did not account for the increase in PA that a frenzied berserker gets.  However,  all of those things will only make the differences in damage output more drastic.If this character wants to be optimally effective he ought to scrap the dualweilding great axes, and dual weild a great axe with armor spikes.  That way he can get two handed damage (from str) on his primary attack, and still get in the second attack.  Moreover, this seems to be most inline with the 2e concept of the dwarven battlerager.  He still has a -2 to attacks, but as was shown with the damage calculator, the difference between 17.05 and 17.225 is not that significant.  Moreover, now the primary weapon deals the same damage as the single weilding characters weapon did (the +20) and again, he has 1.5 x str bonus for damage to the great axe.Flavor:I think the batterager concept is a great one and I must admit, the very idea of a dwarf grasping the hilts of two great axes would send me running - no matter who I was.  However, given the mechanics described above, I would at least recommend switching out the monkey grip for EWP - dwarven axe.  I think it would maintain the same flavor but increase the character's probability for survival.When I think of a battlerager, I envision something slightly different than what your player did.  I played 2E for about 5 years before the transition to 3E.  One of my DM's had an NPC battlerager that I will always remember (he practically caused a war between the dwarves and elves - got involved with a scuffle in the forest and broke a bunch of old trees.  Let me tell you, not a good thing for the nature loving feys.)  Anyway, I have this concept of a battlerager that focuses more on grappling the target and violently writhing around with spiked armor.I actually tried to formulate my own battlerager NPC for a game I DM.I came up with the following formula:Fighter 6, Barbarian 4, Frenzied Berserker 10 (I tend to dislike creating new PrC's when something else can fit the bill)Feats:  Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple (from OA), prereq.s for the frenzier, ambid, TWF, Iron Will, PA Abilities:  in this order - Con, Str, Wis, Dex, Int, ChrI would recommend actually buying ambid and twf rather than taking a level of ranger.  The ranger limits the character to light armor which is quite a significant penalty given the heirarchy of abilities above and the AC penalty rage and frenzy impose.   The barbarian's limitation to medium armor does not apply to his rage ability and a breast plate with cat's grace should put the character on par with full plate (close at least).  Moreover, the character can shoot to get special materialed full plate that reduces encumberance to that of medium armor (e.g. mithril).IDHMBWM and don't remember exactly what the prereq's are for the PrC - I think there were three.  Regardless, I figured it made the most sense for the character to dual weild a melee weapon with armor spikes.  When he hit with either, he would immediately attempt a grapple.  If successful, he would then dual weild his armor spikes with his gauntlet.  I also toyed with the idea of having a helmet spike Exotic Weapon:  small peircing weapon, d6x3, double damage on a charge, cannot be disarmed.   Anyway, hope all of this helps.</blockquote>

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