Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mage Hand and the No Good, Low Down, Dirty Rotten Arcane Trickster
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="doctorhook" data-source="post: 6450580" data-attributes="member: 58401"><p>Yeah, it definitely has a different power curve than a utility feature like mage hand legerdemain. I want to be able to include this ability in my game; thematically, the idea of sneak attacking with magic is pretty cool, but only really suits the arcane trickster (it would be an offense to ATs to give such an ability to any other existing class or subclass). The only catch is balancing it so that it doesn't end up absolutely superior to all other options.</p><p></p><p>I think @771M correctly points out that it's problematic that such an attack (with a cantrip--spells aren't common enough to matter for this character, I think) scales due to sneak attack and cantrip base damage, but I agree that flatly ignoring cantrip scaling isn't appropriate either. This is part of the reason I was thinking about a range limitation, although the vast majority of combat happens within 30 feet anyway, so choosing an appropriate range would be tricky too. This hypothetical feature has to be balanced to function appropriately with fire bolt (the mostly likely cantrip to get used with it) as well as potential future cantrips of similar power-level.</p><p></p><p>This whole business is leading me to consider <strong>another new alternative feature</strong>: "mage knife", the ability to simply allow magical melee sneak attacks within 30 feet, as though by a different type of superior mage hand, albeit without your weapon leaving your actual hand. This option is thematically appropriate and bypasses the "double-scaling" problem with cantrips; the downside is that it still wouldn't be combat-competitive with assassinate, and is only marginally (if at all) superior to just using a ranged weapon. Actually, now I'm sorta wondering why ATs can't just do this, period.</p><p></p><p>...And there my thoughts go, down that rabbit hole of trying to fix an entire system that isn't broken. </p><p></p><p>Balanced in principle, but it's a slippery slope once we start cherry-picking class features. Next thing I know, a player could be asking for a rogue with Circle of the Moon wildshaping lol.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="doctorhook, post: 6450580, member: 58401"] Yeah, it definitely has a different power curve than a utility feature like mage hand legerdemain. I want to be able to include this ability in my game; thematically, the idea of sneak attacking with magic is pretty cool, but only really suits the arcane trickster (it would be an offense to ATs to give such an ability to any other existing class or subclass). The only catch is balancing it so that it doesn't end up absolutely superior to all other options. I think @771M correctly points out that it's problematic that such an attack (with a cantrip--spells aren't common enough to matter for this character, I think) scales due to sneak attack and cantrip base damage, but I agree that flatly ignoring cantrip scaling isn't appropriate either. This is part of the reason I was thinking about a range limitation, although the vast majority of combat happens within 30 feet anyway, so choosing an appropriate range would be tricky too. This hypothetical feature has to be balanced to function appropriately with fire bolt (the mostly likely cantrip to get used with it) as well as potential future cantrips of similar power-level. This whole business is leading me to consider [b]another new alternative feature[/b]: "mage knife", the ability to simply allow magical melee sneak attacks within 30 feet, as though by a different type of superior mage hand, albeit without your weapon leaving your actual hand. This option is thematically appropriate and bypasses the "double-scaling" problem with cantrips; the downside is that it still wouldn't be combat-competitive with assassinate, and is only marginally (if at all) superior to just using a ranged weapon. Actually, now I'm sorta wondering why ATs can't just do this, period. ...And there my thoughts go, down that rabbit hole of trying to fix an entire system that isn't broken. Balanced in principle, but it's a slippery slope once we start cherry-picking class features. Next thing I know, a player could be asking for a rogue with Circle of the Moon wildshaping lol. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mage Hand and the No Good, Low Down, Dirty Rotten Arcane Trickster
Top