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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9602606" data-attributes="member: 6801228">But deterrents are kind of useless. In fact, they are worse than useless, because if they work, the party is deterred from continuing forward. I think, really, &quot;traps&quot; and &quot;puzzles&quot; need to be thought of first and foremost as challenges. Sure, you can have the occasional set-dressing of a trip-wire with a crossbow bolt, or an exploding rune, but those are truly in my opinion, set dressing. They only exist to make the place FEEL correct. Whether or not they affect the party is entirely separate from that goal. What is a more engaging challenge though? A hallway with a hidden plate that shoots you with a needle? Or a hallway littered with mosiacs and art, which slowly constricts and crushes the party unless they can find the hidden lever that resets the hall and opens the door? Both are &quot;overcome&quot; by the finding of the hidden trigger, but one of them is just boring. Because success and failure are nearly indistinguishable in it. 1d10+2 damage isn't going to make something memorable. And some people try and fix this by simply making it more damage, but that doesn't solve the problem. The problem is the flow of the challenge. A trap like a tripwire crossbow is over and done with the moment you learn of its existence. Either you failed and got shot, or you successfully spotted it and it is no longer a threat. Make the flow different, by making the noticing of the trap completely separate from the defeat of the trap, and you know have a far superior challenge.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9602606, member: 6801228"] But deterrents are kind of useless. In fact, they are worse than useless, because if they work, the party is deterred from continuing forward. I think, really, "traps" and "puzzles" need to be thought of first and foremost as challenges. Sure, you can have the occasional set-dressing of a trip-wire with a crossbow bolt, or an exploding rune, but those are truly in my opinion, set dressing. They only exist to make the place FEEL correct. Whether or not they affect the party is entirely separate from that goal. What is a more engaging challenge though? A hallway with a hidden plate that shoots you with a needle? Or a hallway littered with mosiacs and art, which slowly constricts and crushes the party unless they can find the hidden lever that resets the hall and opens the door? Both are "overcome" by the finding of the hidden trigger, but one of them is just boring. Because success and failure are nearly indistinguishable in it. 1d10+2 damage isn't going to make something memorable. And some people try and fix this by simply making it more damage, but that doesn't solve the problem. The problem is the flow of the challenge. A trap like a tripwire crossbow is over and done with the moment you learn of its existence. Either you failed and got shot, or you successfully spotted it and it is no longer a threat. Make the flow different, by making the noticing of the trap completely separate from the defeat of the trap, and you know have a far superior challenge. [/QUOTE]

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