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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9603816" data-attributes="member: 7026594">In my last old school dungeon crawl game I used a more limited version of it.&nbsp; The caster would sort of astrally project from their body Dr. Strange-style, at a &quot;flying&quot; speed of 60' round, and was quasi-invisible (some particularly perceptive or magical creatures could see them).&nbsp; While projecting, the caster's body lay helpless and unaware.&nbsp; They could pass through objects and walls, but had to remain in contact with air as well (so not moving through any solid obstacle wider than their body or possibly outstretched arms), and I limited the duration to the caster's level in rounds. I made this a 2nd or 3rd level spell in Five Torches Deep, though it wasn't on the regular spell list and had to be found.&nbsp; The limited amount of scouting made it valuable but short enough duration that no one checked out or was bored- the players would all be psyched to see what the mage found in their relatively brief jaunt, and his decisions about which passages to explore had weight because he had a relatively limited distance he could cover.&nbsp; I don't think deterring the players is necessarily bad, much less useless.&nbsp; Part of the point of obvious traps (or whatever else folks want to call them) is to give the players forewarning.&nbsp; If they don't have to go where the trap is or open the chest or what have you, then they now have a level of informed consent in engaging with it.&nbsp; The danger is signposted.&nbsp; They can choose to take a risk or not.&nbsp; Whereas a &quot;traditional&quot; completely hidden pressure plate or something is more a &quot;surprise, gotcha!&nbsp; Mark off some HP&quot;.&nbsp; Of course if they DO have to engage with it (say the trap obstructs the one route to the McGuffin), then it's more of a dangerous puzzle.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 9603816, member: 7026594"] In my last old school dungeon crawl game I used a more limited version of it. The caster would sort of astrally project from their body Dr. Strange-style, at a "flying" speed of 60' round, and was quasi-invisible (some particularly perceptive or magical creatures could see them). While projecting, the caster's body lay helpless and unaware. They could pass through objects and walls, but had to remain in contact with air as well (so not moving through any solid obstacle wider than their body or possibly outstretched arms), and I limited the duration to the caster's level in rounds. I made this a 2nd or 3rd level spell in Five Torches Deep, though it wasn't on the regular spell list and had to be found. The limited amount of scouting made it valuable but short enough duration that no one checked out or was bored- the players would all be psyched to see what the mage found in their relatively brief jaunt, and his decisions about which passages to explore had weight because he had a relatively limited distance he could cover. I don't think deterring the players is [I]necessarily [/I]bad, much less useless. Part of the point of obvious traps (or whatever else folks want to call them) is to give the players forewarning. If they don't have to go where the trap is or open the chest or what have you, then they now have a level of informed consent in engaging with it. The danger is signposted. They can choose to take a risk or not. Whereas a "traditional" completely hidden pressure plate or something is more a "surprise, gotcha! Mark off some HP". Of course if they DO have to engage with it (say the trap obstructs the one route to the McGuffin), then it's more of a dangerous puzzle. [/QUOTE]

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