Mage Hand, walls and doors?

[seandon4]

Hi all: In a recent session, there was some confusion about weather or not 4e's Mage Hand could be conjured blindly somewhere the MU could not directly see, like right on the other side of a normal door, or on the other side of a wall assuming the party knows there's empty space on the other side and they have a rough idea as to what's on the other side.

4e says "spectral hand", so
a) I think a few of us imagined it as a incorporeal/ghostly "power of the mind", a clumsy form of telekinesis (ghostly=can go through walls.)
b) Others, however, I suspect imagined it as a puff of smoke in the shape of a hand that could _not_ go through solid objects; looking at 3.5's Mage Hand, seems to require line-of-sight (pointing). Perhaps I needed to be more descriptive at the time, but...

Is there an official/common ruling for this?

Granted, it would not be an easy thing to do blind: it would require concentration, luck/guess-work and risk warning anything on the other side if an object is dropped. On another thread, one person described Mage Hand being like the claw and prize game at arcades; there's no feeling in the hand, so the MU would have to blindly guess where the object might be; it would be like a gross motor skill (not fine) would only manage to grip/shove something fairly large and in a clumsy fashion, like knock something off a counter, but too clumsy to pick the inside of a lock, or lift a pin.

But any reason it can't be conjured somewhere without direct line of sight to the MU?

By the way, I'm new to En World
Thanks everyone in advance

 

[MarkB]

The rules for Line of Effect cover this fairly clearly. In order to create a spell effect, such as the conjured hand for Mage Hand, you need to have Line of Effect to the space in which you want to create that effect.

Mist or fog won't prevent you from creating a Mage Hand beyond visual range, but a solid barrier such as a wall blocks Line of Effect, and will prevent you from creating a Mage Hand on its other side.

 

[Balesir]

Hi all: In a recent session, there was some confusion about weather or not 4e's Mage Hand could be conjured blindly somewhere the MU could not directly see, like right on the other side of a normal door, or on the other side of a wall assuming the party knows there's empty space on the other side and they have a rough idea as to what's on the other side.

First off - welcome to ENWorld!

Secondly - [MENTION=40176]MarkB[/MENTION] has pointed out the essentials - read the rules on "Line of Effect" and "Line of Sight". The only type of magical effect that normally requires line of sight is teleportation - which specifically does not require line of effect. Almost all other magical effects - including Mage Hand - require line of effect. Line of effect will not go through a solid wall or door - even a transparent one - but will go through darkness, fog or other forms of obscurement. If you have the rules Compendium, check out pages 107-108

 

[seandon4]

Thank you very much for the warm welcome and the prompt replies. Yup, the Line of Effect block is pretty clear it seems; sorry for the trouble as 4e is pretty foreign to me as of yet. Thanks again.

 

[Balesir]

No worries - it only takes a minute to help out, and more folk playing is good for all of us!

 

[sabrinathecat]

Had one fight where the monsters were chasing around a couple of rooms. The wizard would restrict them to charge attacks by constantly closing doors. So they move to the door, minor to open the door, and they can either standard to move or charge. (They had a ranged attack, but it was pretty limited.)

Was one of the most effective things that wizard ever did.