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Mage Slayer revised.
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<blockquote data-quote="IndyPendant" data-source="post: 2499798" data-attributes="member: 8738"><p>Don't fool yourself.</p><p></p><p>No gish will *EVER* take a feat that allows a dubious, minor, and situational combat benefit--and imposes a -2 caster level! I mean, would a tank every take this feat if it offered as 'balance' -2 BAB? That's what you're doing to spellcasters by tacking on that penalty.</p><p></p><p>And I don't see how the benefit is too powerful. Basically, what it is doing is allowing a fighter to take a feat to have a better (*not* 100%) chance to do damage to and interrupt a spellcaster when that caster is threatened. The spellcaster still, in most cases, can just 5' step and bang! instant safe casting.</p><p></p><p>I've always had trouble with the concept that, after about 8th level or so, it is basically utterly impossible for a fighter to stop a caster from casting even one spell. About the only tactic that has a chance of working is to ready an action to step (if necessary) and attack if his opponent castS--and even then, a) the fighter sacrifices iterative attacks to do so, b) he can only select one caster if there is more than one, c) he has to hit the caster, and d) the caster still gets a concentration check--which is usually quite high by then--to succeed in the spell. Even a grapple, by that level, only causes the caster to cast his DD earlier than anticipated to escape, with a (usually-by-then) autosuccess concentration check. Done.</p><p></p><p>Let me ask you this: how often do noncasters try to interrupt spellcasting beyond, say, level 10 in your campaigns? I'm betting it's quite rare--and often fails when tried.</p><p></p><p>Again, it gets back to the fact that casting in the middle of melee is so durned easy, it's become accepted in people's minds as a 'right' of the caster. I don't think it should be, anymore than it's a 'right' of archers to shoot in the middle of melee (no concentration checks for them, note!)</p><p></p><p>Also, if you require spellcraft checks to ID the spell before the fighter can do anything...just don't bother offering the feat. No one except the mathematically challenged is going to take it. Only the cleric as a melee class could take Spellcraft as a class skill. Which means that, since the DC starts at 15 and increases per spell level, suddenly the Fighter has at best a 50/50 chance of even getting an attack on a caster he threatens in melee (something that would happen a lot more rarely than, say, doing +2 damage per hit already!)--and that only if he dumps an entire stack of his very limited class skill points into an otherwise-utterly-useless skill for him. The +4 bonus suggested doesn't help--because the fighter's burning more feats just to enhance very slightly, what I've already established is already a very limited benefit. And no gish would take the feat because of the penalty to caster level.</p><p></p><p>The feat is useless.</p><p></p><p>No, upon further thought, here is how I will present the feat for my players, unless someone can counter my points:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="IndyPendant, post: 2499798, member: 8738"] Don't fool yourself. No gish will *EVER* take a feat that allows a dubious, minor, and situational combat benefit--and imposes a -2 caster level! I mean, would a tank every take this feat if it offered as 'balance' -2 BAB? That's what you're doing to spellcasters by tacking on that penalty. And I don't see how the benefit is too powerful. Basically, what it is doing is allowing a fighter to take a feat to have a better (*not* 100%) chance to do damage to and interrupt a spellcaster when that caster is threatened. The spellcaster still, in most cases, can just 5' step and bang! instant safe casting. I've always had trouble with the concept that, after about 8th level or so, it is basically utterly impossible for a fighter to stop a caster from casting even one spell. About the only tactic that has a chance of working is to ready an action to step (if necessary) and attack if his opponent castS--and even then, a) the fighter sacrifices iterative attacks to do so, b) he can only select one caster if there is more than one, c) he has to hit the caster, and d) the caster still gets a concentration check--which is usually quite high by then--to succeed in the spell. Even a grapple, by that level, only causes the caster to cast his DD earlier than anticipated to escape, with a (usually-by-then) autosuccess concentration check. Done. Let me ask you this: how often do noncasters try to interrupt spellcasting beyond, say, level 10 in your campaigns? I'm betting it's quite rare--and often fails when tried. Again, it gets back to the fact that casting in the middle of melee is so durned easy, it's become accepted in people's minds as a 'right' of the caster. I don't think it should be, anymore than it's a 'right' of archers to shoot in the middle of melee (no concentration checks for them, note!) Also, if you require spellcraft checks to ID the spell before the fighter can do anything...just don't bother offering the feat. No one except the mathematically challenged is going to take it. Only the cleric as a melee class could take Spellcraft as a class skill. Which means that, since the DC starts at 15 and increases per spell level, suddenly the Fighter has at best a 50/50 chance of even getting an attack on a caster he threatens in melee (something that would happen a lot more rarely than, say, doing +2 damage per hit already!)--and that only if he dumps an entire stack of his very limited class skill points into an otherwise-utterly-useless skill for him. The +4 bonus suggested doesn't help--because the fighter's burning more feats just to enhance very slightly, what I've already established is already a very limited benefit. And no gish would take the feat because of the penalty to caster level. The feat is useless. No, upon further thought, here is how I will present the feat for my players, unless someone can counter my points: [/QUOTE]
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