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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6174097" data-attributes="member: 6689464">Well this isn't about merits, what I'm saying is that sorcerer needs to be a class because in order to properly support the story -an otherwise normal person who can use magic naturally- it needs to be decent at mundane stuff, to be able to be good on stuff a wizard isn't naturally good at, instead of being shoehorned into having class features that actively hinder it's flavor while receiving nothing that actively helps them to be balanced. Can a sorcerer be scholarly? yes he can. Must all sorcerers be scholarly? Heck no.   That is a wizard mentality, wanting to solve every single problem with a spell, a sorcerer is naturally a spellcaster, but is also otherwise mundane, of course he can try to act like a wizard but he doesn't has to. A 3e sorcerer had many different paths to choose from: -Try to be a wizard, learn as much arcane knowledge as possible, pick the most versatile spells, even pretend to carry a spellbook with you.-Be a blaster, learn only as much as you will need, then fill in the rest of what you need to survive with mundane skills and equipment-Be a flavorful specialist, go for a theme and stick to it dedicating not a single spell to combat, then carry your weight through combat using the variety of weapons you have at your disposal, there is an advantage to having a weapon with reach or two, and make a moderate investment on skills to ensure your survival  -Be a self buffing gish, by late levels you'll be able to pull a lot of amazing combat displays (and no, that doesn't necessarily involve polimorph cheese)And that is the magic of the sorcerer he doesn't need to be defined by his magic, but easily could, can be as academic and scholarly as you fancy, but you don't need to, in fact you are allowed not to.   In this case it isn't as hard as focusing on a single weapon, but having a good side arm or being able to add a difference in a pinch. And initial weapon proficiencies are important, you cannot wait four levels to be able to wield it properly, also there is no warranty you'll find useful all of the abilities that come with the proficiency on a feat -and this isn't about character optimization- sometimes you just want to be good with a weapon, not being a master of the weapon     Sorcerers are natural gishes, just for example in 3.x-You have proficiency with the spear family. -The sorcerer main variant on UA? A battle sorcerer-The sorcerer variant on complete Mage? A battle sorcerer -The prestige class in core they qualified more easilly for? A partially gishy class -The suggested feat on the 3.5 phb? combat casting (it got removed from the wizard) -The existence of spells like Master's touch, enlarge person, blade of flame, True strike, insightful feint, arrow mind. Of course a wizard could have those too, but in the middle of combat being able to flexibly pick them on the run and apply metamagic as needed is way better, and if they are a permanent part of your character you are also more likely to have the proper scores to survive. A wizard would more easily chicken out and pick a different set the following day.  in 4e: -Dragon and cosmic sorcerers had a good raw mba with weapons, storm and wild were naturally good with ranged weapons.-Even in the limited support they received they feature a good amount of close attacks, a feat that transformed their spells into melee attacks, an MBA at will, weapon powers, a feat specially meant for sorcerers in armor, and did I mention their implements are also weapons?  -They aren't as squishy as wizards-also this title <a href="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19643254/How_to_be_a_Gishy_Squishy_A_Sorcerer_Handbook" target="_blank">http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19643254/How_to_be_a_Gishy_Squishy_A_Sorcerer_Handbook</a> So not just me I bet you never heard of Eldritch strike or the Eldritch charger.  Also I'm not saying the sorcerer has to be shoehorned into the gish role, but that the sorcerer should have what it takes to be built into either path, not just the robbed guy with a hat.</blockquote>

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