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Message: <blockquote data-quote="eyebeams" data-source="post: 3255346" data-attributes="member: 9225">I don't think you're really talking about the theme. You're talking about realizing the theme through plotlines, which is a bit different.Actually, it is. Remembers that both of these things are not abstractions. Searching for knowledge has a specific game system associated with it, as does becoming "enlightened." To gain Arcane XP, you have to go out and dig up unusual things. To get spells, you have to trade for, invent or steal them. Mages have to do this while staying under the radar or outsmarting rivals and enemies.I rather think you're overstating Werewolf's degree of "focus." Werewolf looked focused because the corebook lacked things like detailed information about antagonists, but like Mage, that's fleshed out. There are lots of different games you can play with Predators and the Pure that aren't pure shamanic border-guarding.Actually, Boston's been pretty well-received largely because of the dramatic supernatural elements, like the Prince of 100,000 Leaves. I didn't do any NPC writeups in Boston Unveiled.That's the nature of the material. mages Awaken. Vampired get Embraced. Werewolves have their first changes. There are always points of similarity and the incident will always be important to the NPC's writeup. Really, if you can't accept that, then the whole World of darkness isn't really you're thing, is it? Because that's just how it works.Perhaps you could pull out a specific character from Boston as an example.Point by point:1) Actually, vampires eat people.2) That makes vampires bad and the Nemean not so bad. Also, the Nmean has no interest in actively expanding his power base. He levies taxes and encourages cabals to settle things amongst themselves.3) He's not spooky -- his cabal is. The Nemean is the head of an influential cabal. Princes rule with vampires who are not usually in their cotories.4) If he's so much like a Prince from vampire there are no Princes from vampire like him, then, uh . . . you realize your last statement is self-contradictory, don't you?You should consider that perhaps, what you *really* mean, is that you *personally* have preconceived notions about what vampire and mage characters are like, that these are *not* supported by the books in either line, but it's *your personal * preference.That's fine. But it's personal preference, not a broad critique.No, his cabal has an alliance, not him personally. He's Hierarch because he's in an influential cabal. No, it says it's why the Noose is predominant. It doesn't matter who actually leads the Ebon Noose. Again, you keep treating it like a cult of personality, when it isn't. Anybody who's an Ebon Noose master has a decent shot at Hierarchy of Boston for historical reasons.Werewolf makes it clear that Max Roman wants to make a new werewolf society. That's something solid to sink your teeth into.Actually, he's not that interested in being an active leader, as the book notes -- but that's a policy he got from his cabal. Again, the social unit of the cabal is far more central to how mages do things.The other nWoD books have NPCs that are interesting. The Mage book offered a lot of material to do that.As I said: There are *rules* for doing that.Uh, have you played Vampire? The point of Vampire is that you need to make *personal* political ties to advance. The entire system of blood ties is based on creating this web of *personal* alliances.In Mage, the basic social organization is not the city hierarchy (as it is in Vampire). It's the cabal. A cabal is a law unto itself with its own heraldry, rights and internal obligations. "Extradimensional fortress?" Okay. I think maybe the problem is you didn't give the book a thorough reading. Please tell me where I put this extradimensional fortress, as it's the first I've heard of it.Where did I say this, exactly?Opinions of the setting are ultimately subjective, but I will say that the new game's rules *are* superior. One sign that internet fandom wasn't playing the old game is that I never heard any complaints about a basic mathematical flaw in the old magic system.The core isn't "incomplete." It just has a different emphasis.</blockquote>

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