Magic and d20 modern

[Dogbrain]

I've decided to use the d20 Modern rules as the basis for my iron-age primitive grunt barbarian campaign. The Modern basic classes actually fit into a less-specialistic Iron age culture than do the "D&D with serial number filed off" conventional d20 classes. I like a few of the other features better.

The tricky part is magic. I'm not enamored of the Arcana method of tossing them all into advanced/prestige classes, so here is my thought:

Spellcasting is potentially available to any Smart, Dedicated, or Charismatic hero. Having the ability to cast spells at first level costs both of their starting Feats and gives the ability to cast two cantrips and one first level spell per day. Thereafter, each Bonus Feat (and ONLY Bonus Feats from one of these classes) may be used in this fashion) expended increases the number of each spell level per day by one. Each Talent expended from one of these classes adds a new spell level. However, the number of spells one may cast at a given class level must be less than the number of next-lower spell level (thus, to cast 1 level 2 spell, one must already be able to cast two level 1 spells).

Sticking points still to work out: Balancing in the dedicated hero. Spell lists. Taking a new spellcasting class when one is not a starting-out-at-first-level-with-it character.

 

[pensiv]

That's a fine way to go about it. Have you considered just having basic characters learn incantations?

 

[Dogbrain]

That's a fine way to go about it. Have you considered just having basic characters learn incantations?

Considered and rejected. It's still too much like the Modern Arcana approach.

 

[Galethorn]

Have you considered Grim Tales? I got it two weeks ago, and the magic system is amazingly good for those campaigns were magic is...well, dark, mysterious, and dangerous. The rest of it is essentially D20, with all the era-specific parts removed and replaced with optional rules, and generified versions of their previously modern flavor.

 

[Dogbrain]

Have you considered Grim Tales? I got it two weeks ago, and the magic system is amazingly good for those campaigns were magic is...well, dark, mysterious, and dangerous. The rest of it is essentially D20, with all the era-specific parts removed and replaced with optional rules, and generified versions of their previously modern flavor.

Got my own "magic system" in the works. I was working on how to integrate it with a d20-Modern based framework. The LAST thing I want is something even more "generic", since I'm designing it to fight tightly with an iron-age or earlier setting.

 

[Stormborn]

I am always interested in new magic systems, so I'd love to see what you wind up with, as far as your questions go:

"Balancing in the dedicated hero."

Without knowning a little more about how you intend to work the spellcasting in, i guess I don't understand the question. My guess, however, is it comes down to:

Spell lists.

Are you planning on sticking with standard d20 style spells? Or Aracana Unearthed? Or Call of Cthulhu d20 or what? Are you looking for magic that has the right "flavor" for your world? Considering the number of spells any given character is likely to know, I suggest do what I am doing now: introdcue the "spell list" one spell at a time. On the one hand it keeps thing mysterious for your players, on the other you have a chance to playtest how certain kinds of spells work in the setting. You don't have to come up with a huge list right off the bat, you just have to stay a session or two ahead of the players. If they want some input on their spell selection you could just ask them "what kind of spells do you want?" and see what they say. You could still reserve the right to introduce magic as you see fit.
Another trick I have used is to make everything into spell trees much like domains. Characters may know that a certain kind of spell is possible, eventually, but they don't know the names and effects of every magic they come across, and they still have to work to expand their repetoir.


Taking a new spellcasting class when one is not a starting-out-at-first-level-with-it character.

Two options:
1) Don't allow it. Period. Magic can be an inate ability that always manifests early in life. If you can't do it at 1st level, you can't do it.
2) Allow it, but only with roleplaying restrictions. Like being touched by a god or the like. Not just saying "Oh I take Mage Craft 1!" Make them work for it. Its fun.

You might also want to consider multiclass spell casting. I wouldn't allow it. Tell them their traditions/mindsets/sources of power are incompatible and to learn a new one would mean renouncing the old.

If it takes 2 feats to gain spellcasting as you say above, I doubt its going to even come up very often, depending on their classes and bonus feats and levels.
If you are interested in various flavors of magic appropriate for an Iron Age setting, take a look at Green Ronin's Testament and Medieval books. Lots of interesting ways to handle spell casting/spells there.

 

[Dogbrain]

"Balancing in the dedicated hero."

Without knowning a little more about how you intend to work the spellcasting in, i guess I don't understand the question.

Character class will not determine available spells. Instead, each spellcaster has a "theme", around which lists are built. The path to the theme's power doesn't have to be the same for each practitioner of the theme. The Dedicated Hero gets more "stuff" that isn't represented by Talents or bonus feats--better "numbers per level".

1) Don't allow it. Period. Magic can be an inate ability that always manifests early in life. If you can't do it at 1st level, you can't do it.

Doesn't really fit the setting, which has a few old warriors who take up the magician's path after losing a limb or two.

You might also want to consider multiclass spell casting. I wouldn't allow it. Tell them their traditions/mindsets/sources of power are incompatible and to learn a new one would mean renouncing the old.

That's too "industrialized" and "modern" an approach for the setting. There are no "traditions". There is but one "source" and but one type of magic (no "divine/arcane" division). Parts iz parts and magic iz magic.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Well, in my homebrew we used the six d20Modern base classes, and then added three "Advanced" classes for magic-users, each revolving around a different style of magic (ritual, freeform, or innate). But, we did things a bit differently than Urban Arcana:
> The prerequisite for taking these classes is trivial: one Feat, which gives some basic cantrip-level ability, so it's something that some people might take even if they never intend to take the class. One side effect of this is that you CANNOT take a magic class at level 1.
> They build off the Basic class you were in before taking them. That is, the Wizard class skill list will be "previous class skills, plus Concentration, Spellcraft, and Knowledge:Arcana", and any bonus Feats or Talents the magic class gives are picked from a list that includes the list for your Basic class, plus a few extras. If you had multiple Basic classes, pick one to apply these to.

The result has been interesting. A Smart Hero who goes down the Wizard path can be substantially different than the Dedicated Hero who does the same. It also allows spellcasters to focus more on their skills and feats without multiclassing or using Prestige Classes.

 

[Stormborn]

OK, I see what you mean about the Dedicated Hero's numbers. Well, while not using the divine/arcane division you can take a hint from it. Since the Dedicated has better numbers than the Smart and Charismatic, make that classes Spell Themes less useful in the kind of game you run. Still magic, still something special, but not as useful as the other two classes. Vague advice I know, but w/o understanding more about your setting and your group its probablly the best I can do.

 

[Dogbrain]

Well, in my homebrew we used the six d20Modern base classes, and then added three "Advanced" classes for magic-users, each revolving around

And that was EXACTLY what I said I did NOT want to do.