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<blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 3436469" data-attributes="member: 8439">I am currently playing a monster class which gets chain lightening as a spell like ability at 6th level. Caster level for spell like abilities is based on hit dice. My caster level for the spell like ability is a full half of that required to get the spell normally (and its save is still based on the normal spell level.) When I use the spell like ability, I just slot &quot;6&quot; into all the caster level dependant variables. And cast it.Just because you can't normally choose to put a lower number into those slots than the minimum to cast the spell doesn't mean that an effect which forces you to put lower numbers there eliminates the spell. Notably in hypersmurfs example, it doesn't say &quot;If she tries, the spell fails and is lost from her prepared spells.&quot; It just says that she can't choose to cast it at a lower level.There are a lot of things that can happen to a character based on effects on them that they can't choose to do voluntarily. An example are spells where a sucessful reflex save moves the character out of the spell's area (like blade barrier). Baring imediate action spells, a character can't choose to take a 5 foot step on someone else's initiative count - unless that someone else casts a Blade Barrier where the character is standing. Then they do something (largely involuntarily) that they can never simply choose to do. Its the same way with this feat. It can force an effect that the caster cannot choose voluntarily. &quot;And that's OK&quot;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kahuna Burger, post: 3436469, member: 8439"] I am currently playing a monster class which gets chain lightening as a spell like ability at 6th level. Caster level for spell like abilities is based on hit dice. My caster level for the spell like ability is a full half of that required to get the spell normally (and its save is still based on the normal spell level.) When I use the spell like ability, I just slot "6" into all the caster level dependant variables. And cast it. Just because you can't normally choose to put a lower number into those slots than the minimum to cast the spell doesn't mean that an effect which forces you to put lower numbers there eliminates the spell. Notably in hypersmurfs example, it [b]doesn't say[/b] "If she tries, the spell fails and is lost from her prepared spells." It just says that she can't [b]choose[/b] to cast it at a lower level. There are a lot of things that can happen to a character based on effects on them that they can't choose to do voluntarily. An example are spells where a sucessful reflex save moves the character out of the spell's area (like blade barrier). Baring imediate action spells, a character can't choose to take a 5 foot step on someone else's initiative count - unless that someone else casts a Blade Barrier where the character is standing. Then they do something (largely involuntarily) that they can never simply choose to do. Its the same way with this feat. It can force an effect that the caster cannot choose voluntarily. "And that's OK" :D [/QUOTE]

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