Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic for the Masses, An Age of Industrial Enlightenment
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 6078267" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>I don't think this would work, at least within core rules. The economic system is messed up.</p><p></p><p>Think about what a potion of cure light wounds would be worth to a peasant. A lot. You'd want it, if only as insurance, but it costs 50 gp, more money than you'll see in your life.</p><p></p><p>The Industrial Revolution, Green Revolution and other such changes occurred because these advances became <em>cheap</em>.</p><p></p><p>Eberron solved this problem (although in a nebulous way) by having lots of outside-the-rules items (such as warforged creation forges) that are incredibly cheap to operate, but could only be used by dragonmarked people.</p><p></p><p>House Ghallandra probably has baskets of cheap food they can make ... but they also have a monopoly on it. Only halflings with the appropriate mark could operate such an item, and if you're not authorized (say, cast out of the house) you'd probably get assassinated.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm picturing Luddite riots <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Also, nobles might think servants make a better status symbol than spells (plus you need to be able to trust a caster to keep casting that spell for you if you're not a caster yourself). So I think a party hosted by unseen servants would either be a wizard thing or a once-in-a-year festival for nobles.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They're certainly more reliable, but you can't afford them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>See above.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not familiar with those spells. (I know the 4e ritual for the first though.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it'd be cheaper in the long run to just train people.</p><p></p><p>Entertainment used <em>Ghost Sound, Silent Image & Summon Instrument</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>UMD DCs are high, so you need skilled experts. Furthermore, those wands cost a <strong>lot</strong> and so do cloaks of Charisma.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think only locally, at high cost, and they'd have to deal with the Luddites. (I think even a high-level druid would have trouble operating a commune...)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In a few generations, any family that hasn't had bad luck would quickly outgrow that food source. In fact, without birth control, said family would grow <strong>faster</strong>!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They get killed by Luddites. Sounds like a fun campaign, actually. People clinging to the past, and throwing rocks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think only noble families could actually take advantage of these benefits. I doubt a large family of 100 peasants could afford the 1/day feed someone item.</p><p></p><p>A noble family might be able to, though. (I think we can dispense with WBL for noble NPCs, as long as that money isn't being spent on combat gear. Give the +5 sword to your best bodyguard.) They wouldn't live off of it (the food would be bland), but it'd be handy in an emergency. Note that it doesn't even provide enough food to feed your troops or even your bodyguard unit of maybe 12 guys.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is where I have to clearly disagree with you. I wouldn't want to play in such a world. I don't think having a high starting Int is enough to be a wizard. I think most people just wouldn't have the talent, even if they're smart. Talent isn't in the rules, admittedly, but you can always assume the PCs have a lot more potential talent than NPCs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I just don't think you could do it cheaply and economically. But maybe it's your examples. I'm picturing an item that casts Plant Growth once per year, being that village's special item, and being really handy. (Until D&D vikings come and steal it!)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Here's where it breaks down. These students came out of poverty. How are they able to craft these items? A 1st-level wand costs 750 gp, so 375 gp of raw material plus XP (we'll assume there's a way around that). Of course, these adventurers could provide the raw materials, but they'll run out eventually (unless they're only supplying a small area). I don't think these new students are going to be able to keep doing this while dealing with customers who can't afford it. Of course, you could end up with each village having one item.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>On a related note, are you familiar with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs" target="_blank">Maslow's hierarchy of needs?</a> At the bottom are the most important things, namely staying alive. Food and water would come long before unseen servants. If a peasant had to choose between an item that creates food and something that saves him a bit of work, he'll choose the former. The latter is just a luxury.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 6078267, member: 1165"] I don't think this would work, at least within core rules. The economic system is messed up. Think about what a potion of cure light wounds would be worth to a peasant. A lot. You'd want it, if only as insurance, but it costs 50 gp, more money than you'll see in your life. The Industrial Revolution, Green Revolution and other such changes occurred because these advances became [i]cheap[/i]. Eberron solved this problem (although in a nebulous way) by having lots of outside-the-rules items (such as warforged creation forges) that are incredibly cheap to operate, but could only be used by dragonmarked people. House Ghallandra probably has baskets of cheap food they can make ... but they also have a monopoly on it. Only halflings with the appropriate mark could operate such an item, and if you're not authorized (say, cast out of the house) you'd probably get assassinated. I'm picturing Luddite riots :) Also, nobles might think servants make a better status symbol than spells (plus you need to be able to trust a caster to keep casting that spell for you if you're not a caster yourself). So I think a party hosted by unseen servants would either be a wizard thing or a once-in-a-year festival for nobles. They're certainly more reliable, but you can't afford them. See above. I'm not familiar with those spells. (I know the 4e ritual for the first though.) I think it'd be cheaper in the long run to just train people. Entertainment used [I]Ghost Sound, Silent Image & Summon Instrument[/I]. UMD DCs are high, so you need skilled experts. Furthermore, those wands cost a [b]lot[/b] and so do cloaks of Charisma. I think only locally, at high cost, and they'd have to deal with the Luddites. (I think even a high-level druid would have trouble operating a commune...) In a few generations, any family that hasn't had bad luck would quickly outgrow that food source. In fact, without birth control, said family would grow [b]faster[/b]! They get killed by Luddites. Sounds like a fun campaign, actually. People clinging to the past, and throwing rocks. I think only noble families could actually take advantage of these benefits. I doubt a large family of 100 peasants could afford the 1/day feed someone item. A noble family might be able to, though. (I think we can dispense with WBL for noble NPCs, as long as that money isn't being spent on combat gear. Give the +5 sword to your best bodyguard.) They wouldn't live off of it (the food would be bland), but it'd be handy in an emergency. Note that it doesn't even provide enough food to feed your troops or even your bodyguard unit of maybe 12 guys. I think this is where I have to clearly disagree with you. I wouldn't want to play in such a world. I don't think having a high starting Int is enough to be a wizard. I think most people just wouldn't have the talent, even if they're smart. Talent isn't in the rules, admittedly, but you can always assume the PCs have a lot more potential talent than NPCs. I just don't think you could do it cheaply and economically. But maybe it's your examples. I'm picturing an item that casts Plant Growth once per year, being that village's special item, and being really handy. (Until D&D vikings come and steal it!) Here's where it breaks down. These students came out of poverty. How are they able to craft these items? A 1st-level wand costs 750 gp, so 375 gp of raw material plus XP (we'll assume there's a way around that). Of course, these adventurers could provide the raw materials, but they'll run out eventually (unless they're only supplying a small area). I don't think these new students are going to be able to keep doing this while dealing with customers who can't afford it. Of course, you could end up with each village having one item. On a related note, are you familiar with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs]Maslow's hierarchy of needs?[/url] At the bottom are the most important things, namely staying alive. Food and water would come long before unseen servants. If a peasant had to choose between an item that creates food and something that saves him a bit of work, he'll choose the former. The latter is just a luxury. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic for the Masses, An Age of Industrial Enlightenment
Top