Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic Initiate Feat Debate!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 6731839" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>Granting a spell slot messes with the established way to blend multiple casting sources(i.e. multiclassing). </p><p></p><p>If a barbarian takes Magic Initiate, it's effectively a single spell slot, but it's not really useful as such because the Barbarian only has the one "slot". In this case, formally calling it a "slot" is pedantic. I really don't care because it has absolutely no impact on game play. If someone has a use case that disputes this -- without multi-classing -- I'm all ears.</p><p></p><p>Once you're dealing with a character that already has spell slots, it's a different story. Once you've got spells from two different classes, you ignore either class's specific slots and use the multi-classing table. You have two ways to rule on the Magic Initiate feat:</p><p></p><p>1) Per Crawford's statement that the feat is <u>not</u> intended to let you throw the gained spell into your general mix of slots. In this case, it's a completely separate ability and exists in a silo. The Wizard can't gain <em>cure wounds</em> this way and use one of his 3rd level slots to cast it. Nor can he use his 1st level slots to cast it multiple times in a day. Logic would indicate that the inverse is also true; the Wizard can't forego his use of <em>cure wounds</em> to eek out another <em>magic missile</em>. In this case, the spell has its own, completely separate, refresh mechanic. Based on that, it doesn't sound like a "slot", per say. I sure wouldn't let a Paladin take the Magic Initiate feat to gain an extra smite.</p><p></p><p>2) Ignore Crawford and treat the feat as though it actually represents some minor foray into one of the established ways of casting magic (i.e. mini-dipping into a class). In this case, use the established multi-classing rules. The above Wizard can still freely mingle his normal spells with <em>cure wounds</em>. Also, the Paladin who casts <em>magic missile</em> does so at the cost of a potential Smite. All other class slot progressions are ignored in favor of the multi-class progression. IMO, this is the most natural and logical interpretation of the rules. IME, it is also completely balanced and fair. </p><p></p><p>One note on option #2: If you're a single-classed caster that uses this feat to dip into another class, the progression is the same for full or half casters whether you look at your class or the multi-class table. For 1/3 casters (Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster), the progression is a bit wonky. Use the single-class progression. The feat is a mini-dip. Use the existing rules as a framework, not a straight jacket. If that doesn't make sense, then Crawford's advice is probably best for your group. You should also buy scissors with rounded tips.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 6731839, member: 5100"] Granting a spell slot messes with the established way to blend multiple casting sources(i.e. multiclassing). If a barbarian takes Magic Initiate, it's effectively a single spell slot, but it's not really useful as such because the Barbarian only has the one "slot". In this case, formally calling it a "slot" is pedantic. I really don't care because it has absolutely no impact on game play. If someone has a use case that disputes this -- without multi-classing -- I'm all ears. Once you're dealing with a character that already has spell slots, it's a different story. Once you've got spells from two different classes, you ignore either class's specific slots and use the multi-classing table. You have two ways to rule on the Magic Initiate feat: 1) Per Crawford's statement that the feat is [U]not[/U] intended to let you throw the gained spell into your general mix of slots. In this case, it's a completely separate ability and exists in a silo. The Wizard can't gain [I]cure wounds[/I] this way and use one of his 3rd level slots to cast it. Nor can he use his 1st level slots to cast it multiple times in a day. Logic would indicate that the inverse is also true; the Wizard can't forego his use of [i]cure wounds[/i] to eek out another [i]magic missile[/i]. In this case, the spell has its own, completely separate, refresh mechanic. Based on that, it doesn't sound like a "slot", per say. I sure wouldn't let a Paladin take the Magic Initiate feat to gain an extra smite. 2) Ignore Crawford and treat the feat as though it actually represents some minor foray into one of the established ways of casting magic (i.e. mini-dipping into a class). In this case, use the established multi-classing rules. The above Wizard can still freely mingle his normal spells with [i]cure wounds[/i]. Also, the Paladin who casts [I]magic missile[/I] does so at the cost of a potential Smite. All other class slot progressions are ignored in favor of the multi-class progression. IMO, this is the most natural and logical interpretation of the rules. IME, it is also completely balanced and fair. One note on option #2: If you're a single-classed caster that uses this feat to dip into another class, the progression is the same for full or half casters whether you look at your class or the multi-class table. For 1/3 casters (Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster), the progression is a bit wonky. Use the single-class progression. The feat is a mini-dip. Use the existing rules as a framework, not a straight jacket. If that doesn't make sense, then Crawford's advice is probably best for your group. You should also buy scissors with rounded tips. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic Initiate Feat Debate!
Top