Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic Item Creation: Which book should contain rules for magic item creation?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6291275" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>In that case it needn't be a magic item. It could be a compliment from the king.</p><p></p><p>I think it was always regarded as important that it makes a mechanical difference - that it changes, however modestly, the way the player is able, via his/her PC, to engage the situations/challenges that the game throws up. It is the only way to do this besides gaining XP and levels. (Hence, in the original game, magic items did not grant XP because they boosted mechanical capabilities along a different axis of development.)</p><p></p><p>In this way, I think the designers always had in mind [MENTION=27160]Balesir[/MENTION]'s point that the game is intended to be fun and challenging for the (real) players, not the (imaginary) characters.</p><p></p><p>What the original designers seem not to have fully thought through is that improvements in mechanical capability are a benefit to the player only under a very narrow subset of approaches to GMing and adventure design - namely, something like modern computer game design, where are whole lot of material is pre-prepared but is only feasible for players with minimum mechanical resources - hence, improving your numbers opens up new opportunities for play in the gameworld the GM has created. (I think [MENTION=386]LostSoul[/MENTION] is one poster on these boards who has thought a lot about this approach to play.)</p><p></p><p>But as soon as the approach of gameplay shifts to "tailored" modules or adventure paths or whatever, such that the players have access to whatever content the GM prepares for them, then this particular rationale for magic items as a reward bascially fades away. I think the 4e desginers realised this, and it is obvious - despite the chapter heading "rewards" - that in 4e gaining XP and finding magic items doesn't "strengthen" the character, or open up new vistas of play other than in the sense that, over time, play moves from the heroic to the epic tier. (The designers showed that they understand this when they wrote a mini-campaign that compressed all the story elements into a shorter mechanical arc, namely, Neverwinter.)</p><p></p><p>I personally very much like this feature of 4e, but many people criticise it as a "treadmill" or as magic items being "complulsory" rather than genuine rewards.</p><p></p><p>Bounded accuracy is an attempt to make magic items into genuine rewards. The risk that this poses, and that I've already seen plenty of commentary on, is that the effect of the "reward" is in fact to make the game more boring, Monty Haul-style, as the player is unable to be meaningfully challenged by the sorts of situations the GM is able to come up with by deploying the game's resources in the apparenlty intended manner. (For instance, once even Asmodeus needs a natural 20 to hit you, there doesn't seem to be much mechanical challenge left, at least within the standard parameters of D&D.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6291275, member: 42582"] In that case it needn't be a magic item. It could be a compliment from the king. I think it was always regarded as important that it makes a mechanical difference - that it changes, however modestly, the way the player is able, via his/her PC, to engage the situations/challenges that the game throws up. It is the only way to do this besides gaining XP and levels. (Hence, in the original game, magic items did not grant XP because they boosted mechanical capabilities along a different axis of development.) In this way, I think the designers always had in mind [MENTION=27160]Balesir[/MENTION]'s point that the game is intended to be fun and challenging for the (real) players, not the (imaginary) characters. What the original designers seem not to have fully thought through is that improvements in mechanical capability are a benefit to the player only under a very narrow subset of approaches to GMing and adventure design - namely, something like modern computer game design, where are whole lot of material is pre-prepared but is only feasible for players with minimum mechanical resources - hence, improving your numbers opens up new opportunities for play in the gameworld the GM has created. (I think [MENTION=386]LostSoul[/MENTION] is one poster on these boards who has thought a lot about this approach to play.) But as soon as the approach of gameplay shifts to "tailored" modules or adventure paths or whatever, such that the players have access to whatever content the GM prepares for them, then this particular rationale for magic items as a reward bascially fades away. I think the 4e desginers realised this, and it is obvious - despite the chapter heading "rewards" - that in 4e gaining XP and finding magic items doesn't "strengthen" the character, or open up new vistas of play other than in the sense that, over time, play moves from the heroic to the epic tier. (The designers showed that they understand this when they wrote a mini-campaign that compressed all the story elements into a shorter mechanical arc, namely, Neverwinter.) I personally very much like this feature of 4e, but many people criticise it as a "treadmill" or as magic items being "complulsory" rather than genuine rewards. Bounded accuracy is an attempt to make magic items into genuine rewards. The risk that this poses, and that I've already seen plenty of commentary on, is that the effect of the "reward" is in fact to make the game more boring, Monty Haul-style, as the player is unable to be meaningfully challenged by the sorts of situations the GM is able to come up with by deploying the game's resources in the apparenlty intended manner. (For instance, once even Asmodeus needs a natural 20 to hit you, there doesn't seem to be much mechanical challenge left, at least within the standard parameters of D&D.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Magic Item Creation: Which book should contain rules for magic item creation?
Top