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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doctor Proctor" data-source="post: 5034867" data-attributes="member: 78547">Tell them to check out the "A Reward Based Game" sidebar in the alternative rewards section of the DMG2 (p 138).While the following doesn't explicitly say "if you don't hand out items, players will suck and later die", it does point out that these bonuses are necessary.  It goes on to explain how if you don't want magic items you would need to hand out the equivalent of enhancement bonuses to the players as a flat, stackable bonus, at certain appropriate levels.  Levels which, mind you, coincide with when you should be getting these things as magic items.Furthermore, it then goes on to talk about using alternative rewards to replace the actual item powers with some form of alternative reward system.Basically, it's a section detailing how even if you're reducing the number of magic items, you need to compensate with something else.  If they won't listen after that, I would seriously consider leaving...you don't have a whole lot of chance for a long term campaign here.  Sure, right now you're only down +1 or +2, but what about when it's +3 or +4?  Late Heroic/Early Paragon would be almost impossible...or it would just be made up of easy, under leveled encounters so as not to cause a TPK, but they don't sound like the type to do that.</blockquote>