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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 3896033" data-attributes="member: 51325">Personally, I always find this discussion interesting.On the one hand, a lot of people hate the Christmas tress Effect of magic items in 3E, yet at the same time, they don't the mundane class to be close to the wuxia scale.So humour me gentlebeings.Why not the focus on the REAL problem. Namely what magic can do in the hands of the PC.From the dawn of Od&D to 3.x, strip a mage of anylevel of his "bling" and he at most loses 10-20% of his effectiveness. It mostly just takes him longer (he actually has to use those level slots to cast the protection spells) for every battle and he can't last as long.Said fighter is absolutely boned in the same scenario in EVERY version of D&D (not just 3.x).So the real question is _WHAT_ should magic allow for wizards and clerics?</blockquote>