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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 3896061" data-attributes="member: 12306">How much retraining do you want, and how easy do you want it to be?&nbsp; If, say, an adventure calls for underwater activity, magic items are a good, disposable way to get the needed abilities.&nbsp; If you have to spend &quot;level up&quot; abilities for it, you'll have problems.&nbsp; You will also have problems if people haven't just leveled up, knowing that they need to choose the right abilities for the next adventure.&nbsp; If you can wander up to a trainer and drop 50 gold to relearn your talents, well, sure.&nbsp; I still think magic items still have the &quot;fun&quot; advantage, but if you rewrite the inherent abilities to work exactly like magic items mechanically, then there will be no difference other than the joy of loot.So why aren't you complaining about the rules incentivising theft from peasants.&nbsp; Both issues are theft at their roots...We are talking powerful items in the hands of weenies in literature.&nbsp; They either come with drawbacks, or are gained to help fight powerful foes (i.e. they always &quot;come&quot; with drawbacks).&nbsp; As the foes are generally top-of-the-line in the world, the magic items are, effectively, &quot;artifact&quot; level.&nbsp; Then again, a full +5 panoply can do wonders for a lvl 5 person facing a lvl 10...&nbsp; As for examples, Gonturan is fairly friendly.&nbsp; The various items in Edding's work are friendly.&nbsp; Ganoes Paran's sword (Chance?) is unaligned, although it represents not entirely wonted attention.&nbsp; The... thingy (not wandering upstairs for a reference) in Martha Well's mage-slayer thingy trilogy is friendly.If you can get Covenant Items early, then there are lowbies you can take them from and at high levels it pays to go &quot;Covenant Item hunting&quot;.&nbsp; If you only get them late, they might as well be full power anyways.&nbsp; (That said, I *am* strongly in favor of drastically reducing the number of magic item slots.&nbsp; It saves logistical work if nothing else)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 3896061, member: 12306"] How much retraining do you want, and how easy do you want it to be? If, say, an adventure calls for underwater activity, magic items are a good, disposable way to get the needed abilities. If you have to spend "level up" abilities for it, you'll have problems. You will also have problems if people haven't just leveled up, knowing that they need to choose the right abilities for the next adventure. If you can wander up to a trainer and drop 50 gold to relearn your talents, well, sure. I still think magic items still have the "fun" advantage, but if you rewrite the inherent abilities to work exactly like magic items mechanically, then there will be no difference other than the joy of loot. So why aren't you complaining about the rules incentivising theft from peasants. Both issues are theft at their roots... We are talking powerful items in the hands of weenies in literature. They either come with drawbacks, or are gained to help fight powerful foes (i.e. they always "come" with drawbacks). As the foes are generally top-of-the-line in the world, the magic items are, effectively, "artifact" level. Then again, a full +5 panoply can do wonders for a lvl 5 person facing a lvl 10... As for examples, Gonturan is fairly friendly. The various items in Edding's work are friendly. Ganoes Paran's sword (Chance?) is unaligned, although it represents not entirely wonted attention. The... thingy (not wandering upstairs for a reference) in Martha Well's mage-slayer thingy trilogy is friendly. If you can get Covenant Items early, then there are lowbies you can take them from and at high levels it pays to go "Covenant Item hunting". If you only get them late, they might as well be full power anyways. (That said, I *am* strongly in favor of drastically reducing the number of magic item slots. It saves logistical work if nothing else) [/QUOTE]

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