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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7546494" data-attributes="member: 4937">On the subject of acquiring magic items, my experiences differ in a lot of ways from the original author.First, my experience is that beginning at around 8th level, it would take about a year of weekly play to gain a level.  The original poster asserts that he reached "10th to 15th level" in about a year and managed to do this despite not acquiring many magic items.  I find it hard to believe that if you were playing any DM as fussy about the rules as is claimed and who was continually denying lair treasure that the characters could advance in level at all.  Even if the DM is a stickler about the rules and sticks to the treasure type placement in the Monster Manual, about 2/3rds of all XP is going to come from treasure.  If that ratio fell to less than 1/2 of all XP was from treasure (because there were no lairs) and in particular if magic items weren't forth coming, I don't see how the PC's could survive it much less advance at a good pace.The nice thing about a DM sticking to the magic item generator tables, is the treasure would be much more diverse, esoteric, and at times impactful than if the DM stuck to his instincts and placed treasure.   The first treasures a player might encounter would be (rolled randomly):Wand of Flame Extinguishing, Elixir of Life, Philter of Persuasiveness, Spell Scroll (Mage: Wizard Lock), Sword -2, Robe of Useful Items, Mace +1, Ring of Sustenance, Ring of Jumping, Boots of Elvenkind, Wand of Fire, Scroll of Protection - Possession, Bow +1, Longsword of the Planes [Unusual Abilities: Int: 12, Alignment: Lawful Good, Communication: semi-empathy, Powers/Abilities: detect precious metals, kind and amount in a 2" radius], Sling of Seeking +2, Spell Scroll (Mage: Transmute Rock to Mud, Item, Tenser's Floating Disk, Repulsion), Potion of Polymorph (Self), Ring of Protection +2That to me looks very much like the sort of things I'd place, right down to the early access to a powerful intelligent sword that got more powerful the higher you level up (indeed, I can't believe I've never placed a Sword of the Planes to acquire in the first 3-4 levels of play, as it seems so obvious once you see it).  The only item(s) that I might overrule in that list is the cursed sword -2, as it would be crippling to encounter this early and seems almost cruel, and the wand of fire which would turn any wizard that found it into a powerhouse.  But I might solve this problem by giving the wand just a dozen charges, which would give the wizard something to do before hitting 5th level.  I don't have a strong sense how many lairs or how long it would take to acquire that much loot, but my feeling from experience is that a 5th level party ought to have about that much, and it would take 6 months to a year to get that far, with a couple of character deaths along the way.  I note also that the Wizard would almost certainly be allowed the Ring of Protection +2, thereby finally getting his AC below 10.  While Bracers of Defense were quite rare and super valuable, there are a number of other options for a wizard to boost AC, some rarer and some more common.   Once the Ring of Protection was acquired, for example, the Wizard might hope for either the bracers or a lucky Robe of the Archmage.  If we continued generating treasure until we generated a pile sufficient for a 15th level party that had acquired millions of XP, I think we'd end up with a lot of cool loot.Zagyg's Spell Component Case, Potion of Invisibility, Potion of Flying, Scroll of Protection - Air Elementals, Leather Armor +2, 11 Sling Bullets +1 (note: What's with the sling treasure in this campaign?), Longsword +2 Dragon Slayer, Leather Armor +2, Buckler +2, Cursed Backbiter Spear, Pouch of Accessibility, Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location, Potion of Super-Heroism,  Necklace of Prayer Beads [18 semi-precious gems, 12 fancy gems, 6 Precious/Special: 3 x Bead of Atonement, 2 x Bead of Blessing, Bead of Karma], Potion of Heroism, Potion of Diminution,  Two-Handed Sword +3, Shield +1, Potion of Healing, Shield +1, Short Sword +4 Defender, Ring of Anything, Zagyg's Flowing Flagon, Ring of Protection +2...Can you tell I just love random 1e magic items? The interesting thing about this run through it is that it hasn't yet dropped a good armor for the fighter(s)...There are a lot of possible distributions of the treasure, but at this point I'd expect the party to be 9th-10th level, and look something like this:Fighter #1: Full Plate, Two-Handed Sword +3, Bow +1, Ring of Sustenance, Boots of Elven KindFighter #2: Leather Armor +2, Ring of Protection +2, Longsword of the Planes, Buckler +2Thief: Shortsword +4 Defender, Leather Armor +2, Ring of Jumping, Pouch of Accessibility, Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location,Cleric: Plate Mail, Shield +1, Mace +1, Sling +2 Seeking, Sling Bullets +1, Necklace of Prayer BeadsM-U: Wand of Fire, Wand of Flame Extinguishing, Ring of Protection +2, Ring of Anything, Zagyg's Spell Component Case, Robe of Useful ItemsVarious and sundry consumables and esoteric items treated as collective party treasure and doled out as needed for the mission.  By this point, much of it might have been used overcoming problems, but at least how I ran my campaign, in larger cities there were alchemists, hedge wizards, and temples where a small selection of random potions and scrolls could be purchased (supplies renewing about every game month) and as such I'd still expect the party to have quite a bit of minor scrolls and potions.</blockquote>

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