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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 7546772" data-attributes="member: 32740">My experience also was that magic item creation was a non-starter in 1E and 2E.  Technically there was a method but it put the requirements at such a high level that it was impractical, especially when the amount of magic coming in by other means was generally quite sufficient.  The admonition to never have "magic shops" didn't stop us from selling items in the slightest.  Who'd we sell to?  It just didn't matter.  There was a gp sale value and if items WERE being sold by the PC's there was therefore a market.  Our DM's rightly concluded that it might not be a good idea to let PC's just go down to Magic-R-Us and buy whatever they happen to be able to afford, but it was eminently logical that there WAS a market and for about half the items in the DMG there was at least a chance each week or each month that particular items would become available for purchase.The best source for items, however, was still just going out adventuring - and THAT was rightly perceived to be the best approach, but the game rules and attendant campaign settings provided no in-character support (or even suggestions) for how the ECONOMY of magic items should ultimately work.  When our 1E/2E PC's reached the lofty heights where we knew spellcasters powerful enough to make items for us and willing to do so, or on a few occasions when PC's made their own, the number of items made was still VERY few.  With the methodology in the rules it was just too expensive.  Too time-consuming.  If making the items yourself it was unprofitable to be sidelined doing that rather than actively adventuring.  If you were having items made for you, the cost was kept very high even in our treasure-obsessed power-gaming campaigns, and the wait to get things in your PC's hands was interminable.3E had the magic item creation system we always wanted.  Or THOUGHT we always wanted.  It was great to actually have some kind of reference point for how much magic any PC should expect to have at a given level, and of course there was fun to be had in simply being able to buy what you want when you want it because it was nearly all just waiting on a literal shelf to be bought.  But there was a serious loss of tone to the game overall by making magic a routine commodity little different than buying a backpack or a horse.  As Spock said, having is not always better than wanting - it is not logical but it is often true.  3E thus swung too far in the opposite direction from 1E/2E.With only limited tweaking the 3E system could simply be applied directly to 1E/2E rules and thus have PC-made items a much more viable possibility at less-than-epic levels, but I still hold that "magic shops" are still a bad idea. Yes there's a market for buying, selling, and making items, but it still has to be a struggle, a sacrifice, a choice between getting exactly what you want and paying an attendant cost for it in both time and money.  Availability is NOT just a flat GP community sale and ready cash limit.  You can't always get what you want even if you have gobs of coin to throw at it, or if it IS available... it'll sometimes cost you more than just coin or more coin than you may be comfortable spending.</blockquote>

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