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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DM-Rocco" data-source="post: 2878442" data-attributes="member: 14451">Lot of player hating going on against my favorite spell from way back in AD&D.  I can't believe the hate. I don't think the spell is broken, what I think is broken is how some classes can break the spell, like the sorcerer for instance.  Anyway, you all got me fired up so I apologize ahead of time if I go a bit far on defending the spell, but I have to make a lot of comments against the player haters.I do ask that those that have a problem with the spell ask themselves if the problem is with it cause the spell is broken or from the way it was used.  I think if you reflect back on the situations where you think the spell is broken, you will 9 times out of ten find that a sorcerer was causing all the problems.So me a 9th level wizard with all magic missiles and I will show you someone who doesn't understand how to play a wizard.Uh, not sure what you are saying here.  Plenty of spells are automatic hits.  Almost every evocation and necromancy spells are automatic hits, fireball, lightning bold, cold of cold.I think what you mean to say is that ALL ray spells require a ranged touch attack, which they do, just like the PHB says under ray effects.Notice, magic missile is not a ray spell, so yes, like all other non ray spells, it automatically hitsNow, I could see you being pissy cause it doesn’t offer a save, but since it will most likely only target one creature, even at higher levels, and has a low damage cap, even compared to other 1st level spells, it is fairly balanced. I think it is important to note that you are most likely going use it against only one target, even though you can target up to five, so it is weaker in the respect that it only does really good damage to one creature.You do realize that it is only a first level spell, thus also subject to higher SR failure and also subject to many common protections like Globe of Invulnerability.  A simple shield spell kills the spell and brooches of shield absorb them like made.  Sure, force gets by DR and hardness and is one of the most useful descriptors, but that was an add on for 3.0 and 3.5.  If anything, WOTC made it more useful by changing the way magic works.Hmm, I guess the cleric would do nothing against it, or any other properly made character.  For christs sake, if your world about a fighter getting on even ground with a spellcaster against a wraith, then get a ghost touched weapon, I'm sure the spellcaster would be happy to make you one, if ya would stop whining about his ability to do a max of 5d4+5 to a wraith.  I realize you weren't the original poster for this, so apologies for that, just needed the quote.Well, I guess once you get to be, hmm, what, 10th level all your first levels spells should just suck and be unuseful.  Tell me what kind of sense that makes.  Magic Missile and Burning Hands were staples of AD&D, since the begining and with the 3.0/3.5 stat scores easier to get a CON bonus to hit points, these spells are actually weaker that 1st edition cause on average everything has more hit points.  I don't think it is a matter of characters thinking that low level wizards are boring, cause they know, or should know, that things get better for them very quickly.  I can't believe that so many people on this thread think that Magic Missile is the second coming of the anti-christ.I agree that Sorcerers are just plain broken in general.  You get way more spells, incredible flexability when casting spells, including meta magic flexability.  The only down side to playing a sorcerer is that you know fewer spells, which is not that big of a deal, if you do enough research to take the good ones, which in the case, magic missile happens to be.It really doesn't matter what spell you have, if you can cast it over and over and over, it is good, for the most part.I concur.Whenever I play a wizard I always have a few magic missiles in store, but I use them mainly as a last resort since there are far better spells that deal a lot more damage to many more targets.  Really, at higher levels, the only time I cast magic missile is when I run out of fun spells and have to rely on lower level staple spells.You are making an unfair comparison since you are talking about a broken class.  Your typical wizard won't memorize every spell as a hieghtened Magic Missile.  It is the Socerers ability to convert other spells into 1st level spells that breaks the spell, not the spell itself.For the record, they had magic items to protect against Magic Missile in AD&D too, WOTC didn't come up with them.  But, MM was more powerful back then, cause things had fewer hit points and of course MM dominated play testing, I'm sure many of them played sorcerers to test the new class, which happens to be a class that can and will abuse it.Monte Cook have some very interesting ideas for magic, I like the different levels of spells, how they can be made stronger and such, but really, I think his magic system is more geared towards a lower magic setting.  That is fine and all, but I think that helps explain some of his theorys on things like MM.I this this is a vaild point.  I don't understand everything about the warlock cause I think the premuse for the character class is broken and won't read further into it, but Warlocks do get eldritch blasts as many times as they want and they get invocations, and from my understanding, as many times a day as they want too.Not only do they get eldritch blasts an umlimited number of times a day, they also can add to the blast effects like, every time someone is hit with one, they are sickened and stuff.Both the blasts and the invocations are spell-like abilities so with a quicken spell like ability feat, you can use each quickened once a day.  I think if you guys want to complain about a broke spell like ability, pick on the warlock blast.  Personally, I would cast a teleport spell if confronted by a warlock, cause the shear number of blasts they can cast will always out weigh a wizard and even a sorcerer, doesn't matter if it is not a force effect like magic missile.  Eventually they will get you.That seems to be a popular opinion.  The orb spells are broken, mostly cause of no SR, but other reasons as well.    I even agree they should be stricken from the record.  I won't let players use them either.</blockquote>

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