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Magic Missile vs. Mirror Image
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<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7111211" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p><em>Mirror Image</em> says, "Each time a creature targets <strong>YOU</strong> with an attack".</p><p></p><p>The spell then says, "roll a d20 to determine whether the attack <strong>INSTEAD</strong> targets one of your duplicates".</p><p></p><p>The spell literally works by first having the attacker target the <strong>creature</strong>, and then the spell (possibly) re-directs the attack to target an image instead.</p><p></p><p>What you wrote is provably false, proved by simply cut&pasting the spell description.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. The target is still 'they guy with all the images'. Far from preventing you from mentally choosing to target that guy, the spell relies on you targeting that guy so that it can re-direct your attack to an image.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You claimed that ALL synonyms of 'target' meant that you were physically aiming like a sniper through a scope, while quoting a dictionary definition which has synonyms which do <strong>not</strong> mean that! Your own dictionary quote disproved you!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not at all. As just one example out of hundreds in the PHB, <em>phantasmal force</em> targets a creature you can see within 60 feet that has a mind. Although you mentally choose the 'target' of the spell with 100% certainty, whether or not the creature is actually <em>affected</em> by the spell has absolutely nothing to do with how good your aim is, how good the target is at dodging, or what penalties you have to your aim. What matters is how strong its will is compared to the power of your spellcasting. That spell (and hundreds like it) are not physically 'aimed' in any way. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You mean you might have a specific spell which might mess with the general targeting rules? You might, but the general way of targeting is to simply choose your target. No roll is required to 'target', and the general targeting rules in every edition only require that choice, not a roll to see if you succeed or fail in your choice of target.</p><p></p><p>The way the rules work is that you may fail to <strong>hit</strong> your target, you may fail to <strong>affect</strong> your target, but you cannot fail to <strong>target</strong> your target! </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>ALL</strong> of the images <strong>ARE</strong> 'the creature'! They are simply many images of one creature when we usually only have one image of a creature. When using a spell without an attack roll we do not need to know which image is the real one because we are not targeting an image we are targeting the creature.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>'Choosing' a target is not the same thing as 'hitting' or 'affecting' your chosen target.</p><p></p><p>From PHB p194, 'Making An Attack':-</p><p></p><p>* step 1. <strong>Choose</strong> a <em>target</em>. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location.</p><p></p><p>* step 2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.</p><p></p><p>* step 3. <strong>Resolve the attack</strong>. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.</p><p></p><p>Step 1 is 'choose your target'; no random roll, no check, save or attack roll involved. It is a mental choice, made with 100% certainty.</p><p></p><p>Step 3 is 'resolve the attack', where you may or may not hit.</p><p></p><p>'Targeting' and 'attacking' are different things. 'Choosing a target' and 'successfully affecting your chosen target' are different things.</p><p></p><p>A fighter chooses his target (ie 'targets') with 100% certainty, and still has to roll to see if he hits or misses!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7111211, member: 6799649"] [i]Mirror Image[/i] says, "Each time a creature targets [b]YOU[/b] with an attack". The spell then says, "roll a d20 to determine whether the attack [B]INSTEAD[/B] targets one of your duplicates". The spell literally works by first having the attacker target the [b]creature[/b], and then the spell (possibly) re-directs the attack to target an image instead. What you wrote is provably false, proved by simply cut&pasting the spell description. No. The target is still 'they guy with all the images'. Far from preventing you from mentally choosing to target that guy, the spell relies on you targeting that guy so that it can re-direct your attack to an image. You claimed that ALL synonyms of 'target' meant that you were physically aiming like a sniper through a scope, while quoting a dictionary definition which has synonyms which do [b]not[/b] mean that! Your own dictionary quote disproved you! Not at all. As just one example out of hundreds in the PHB, [i]phantasmal force[/i] targets a creature you can see within 60 feet that has a mind. Although you mentally choose the 'target' of the spell with 100% certainty, whether or not the creature is actually [i]affected[/i] by the spell has absolutely nothing to do with how good your aim is, how good the target is at dodging, or what penalties you have to your aim. What matters is how strong its will is compared to the power of your spellcasting. That spell (and hundreds like it) are not physically 'aimed' in any way. You mean you might have a specific spell which might mess with the general targeting rules? You might, but the general way of targeting is to simply choose your target. No roll is required to 'target', and the general targeting rules in every edition only require that choice, not a roll to see if you succeed or fail in your choice of target. The way the rules work is that you may fail to [b]hit[/b] your target, you may fail to [b]affect[/b] your target, but you cannot fail to [b]target[/b] your target! [b]ALL[/b] of the images [b]ARE[/b] 'the creature'! They are simply many images of one creature when we usually only have one image of a creature. When using a spell without an attack roll we do not need to know which image is the real one because we are not targeting an image we are targeting the creature. 'Choosing' a target is not the same thing as 'hitting' or 'affecting' your chosen target. From PHB p194, 'Making An Attack':- * step 1. [b]Choose[/b] a [i]target[/i]. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location. * step 2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll. * step 3. [b]Resolve the attack[/b]. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage. Step 1 is 'choose your target'; no random roll, no check, save or attack roll involved. It is a mental choice, made with 100% certainty. Step 3 is 'resolve the attack', where you may or may not hit. 'Targeting' and 'attacking' are different things. 'Choosing a target' and 'successfully affecting your chosen target' are different things. A fighter chooses his target (ie 'targets') with 100% certainty, and still has to roll to see if he hits or misses! [/QUOTE]
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