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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 6032894" data-attributes="member: 7006">But do you really need to put these classes into a cute little basket in order to tell people &quot;select the spellcasting mechanics for this class&quot;?And besides which... I could have sworn we've seen a whole host of people clamoring for a non-Vancian divine caster option.&nbsp; So how are we going to get that?&nbsp; The original thought was that the Clerics also could have their spellcasting mechanics selected by the DM/players at the beginning of the campaign... but if Clerics aren't put into this &quot;Magic-User&quot; basket... does that mean they cannot?&nbsp; They are stuck with whatever psuedo-Vancian mechanics get assigned to them?And if they DO fall inside the &quot;Magic-User&quot; category... then having that category is even more useless and brainless, because we already know spellcasting classes are Magic-Users.&nbsp; That's by definition!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; You cast spells... you're USING MAGIC!The ONLY way I see having a &quot;Magic-User&quot; category to separate out certain classes from others to possibly have any form and function is if there are a small band of classes that cast a small amount of spells that do not (or should not) have multiple mechanics to do so.&nbsp; So maybe classes like the Paladin, or Ranger, or Bard.&nbsp; Because spellcasting is not the focus of their class... they don't require more than one way to cast spells because it's just such a small part of their class identity.&nbsp; Those classes all have a small number of Vancian spells available per day, because their primary focus is combat or exploration (for example).The &quot;big&quot; primary spellcasting classes... your Wizard, your Cleric, your Druid, your Warlock, your Psion... THOSE maybe you could put into a &quot;Magic-User&quot; basket to tell players that their mechanics are selectable upon the creation of the game... whereas the other minor spellcasting classes cannot.&nbsp; Anything else seems kind of superfluous and unnecessary to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 6032894, member: 7006"] But do you really need to put these classes into a cute little basket in order to tell people "select the spellcasting mechanics for this class"? And besides which... I could have sworn we've seen a whole host of people clamoring for a non-Vancian divine caster option. So how are we going to get that? The original thought was that the Clerics [B]also[/B] could have their spellcasting mechanics selected by the DM/players at the beginning of the campaign... but if Clerics aren't put into this "Magic-User" basket... does that mean they cannot? They are stuck with whatever psuedo-Vancian mechanics get assigned to them? And if they DO fall inside the "Magic-User" category... then having that category is even more useless and brainless, because we [I]already know[/I] spellcasting classes are Magic-Users. That's by definition! ;) You cast spells... you're USING MAGIC! The ONLY way I see having a "Magic-User" category to separate out certain classes from others to possibly have any form and function is if there are a small band of classes that cast a small amount of spells that do not (or should not) have multiple mechanics to do so. So maybe classes like the Paladin, or Ranger, or Bard. Because spellcasting is not the focus of their class... they don't require more than one way to cast spells because it's just such a small part of their class identity. Those classes all have a small number of Vancian spells available per day, because their primary focus is combat or exploration (for example). The "big" primary spellcasting classes... your Wizard, your Cleric, your Druid, your Warlock, your Psion... THOSE maybe you could put into a "Magic-User" basket to tell players that their mechanics are selectable upon the creation of the game... whereas the other minor spellcasting classes cannot. Anything else seems kind of superfluous and unnecessary to me. [/QUOTE]

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