Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Conjureman" data-source="post: 46082" data-attributes="member: 2583">Originally Posted by HyperSmurf:I'm looking at the rule that says "A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10". You are reading that out of the magic item creation section, though, correct?  All of the discussion in that section is in regards to making permanent enchantments on an item.  The like bonuses don't stack rule would mean that the superior enchancement bonus would override the inferior one, rather than adding together.  But the spirit in which the spell appears to be intended is basically a "You can make your armor up to +5 depending on the level" sort of stance.  Nothing in the rules section you are quoting states that this rule *does* apply to temporary spell effects, so it is open to interpretation either way. which is why I think it is important to consider the intent and effect of the spell.  Considering that this is a third level spell with a relatively limited duration, I do not think that allowing it to operate on a suit of armor with +10 in "special ability bonus equivalents" (well, +9 and the base +1 enchancement bonus) would make this spell unbalancing or overly effective.  The "+10 max" from magic item creation rules I would interpret as applying to magic item creation.  There is no indication in the section on spells or magic itself indicating that these equivalent bonuses would apply when considering whether enhancement type spells (magic weapon, magic vestment) would be able to be applied to a certain item.  I can see why one may chose to interpret the magic item rule as applying in this situation, but as adding a transitory enhancement bonus to your armor is not, in my opinion, going to overly or unbalancingly effect the game, why worry about it?Consider this.  At 20th level, the cleric running around in a set of full plate armor with a +1 enchancement bonus and +9 in enchancement equivlanet bonuses (I am assuming no one is handing out effective +10 armor at 5th level here) and a +5 large shield is at AC 26 (assuming no dex bonus or other magical equipment that is adding AC).  By allowing the magical vestment bonus to stack, her armor class increases to 31 (the +5 overrides, rather than adds to, the +1).The fighter who is attacking her has a BAB of +20.  Now, we seem to have established a rather potent magic item level, so let's assume that the fighter has a +5 sword of his own and an 18 strength (at this point he would have been able to add 5 bonus character points, so even if strength started at 13 it would be up to 18 by now).  This puts the fighter with a total attack bonus of +29, striking the cleric on a 2 or better. And this is assuming that out of those 3 billion bonus fighter feats, he has never picked up anything like weapon focus. But to be honest, that wouldn't matter because a one always misses.If the cleric did not have the +4 additional enchancement, the fighter would hit unless he rolled a 1, giving him a 95% chance to hit as his attack bonus is higher than the target AC but a roll of one always misses.  If the additional +4 is in effect from magic vestment, the fighter hits on a two or better.  Meaning (and I know you all see this coming) that he STILL hits unless he rolls a one, leaving the hit chance at 95%. Due to inherent game mechanics, in this scenario adding the enhancement bonus makes absolutely no difference.  I think the debate about whether the enhancement bonus would take affect is moot when you look at lower levels.  If 10th level characters are running around in armor with equivalent of +10 enhancement, the least of your concerns will be magic vestment. I could do more examples, but my primary point is that unless you hand out +10 equivalent armor at pretty low levels, letting the enchancement bonus from the magical vestment spell stack has minimal or no game effect beyond your cleric going "Yay!  I love this spell!  I have an armor class of 31 now!"  Not allowing it take affect when the armor worn has a ton of non ac affecting enhancements, however, is likely to create debates, ongoing discussions, and really, really long threads on message boards...</blockquote>

Verification